Slow release cage.

[Poly Hive]

Thanks Angry_Mob, its bought and on the way.

PH

 

[Walrus]

One other thing, which I learned from Michael Palmer:

4 days after putting the queen in the hive under the push in cage he returns to release her BUT first he checks for any signs of eggs outside the cage. Quite often there is a queen in there already (maybe 10% - 30% of the time) which means they'll probably kill yours when she's released.

Because he puts the push in cage on a spot where some brood has just emerged it's exactly where any queen outside the cage would probably lay eggs, so you only really have to check the frame that the cage is on.

 

[Poly Hive]

Yes well that's the big American way to chuck queens/cells around and if they fight they fight.

I know my nucs were Q- as I physically removed the queens and subsequentially knocked down queen cells.

PH

 

[eltalia]

Yes well that's the big American way to chuck queens/cells around and if they fight they fight.

Precisely.
More to the point - often it is expedience over experience that drives the style of
USA b'kpn. They know better, just choose "git 'er done" as the default.

I know my nucs were Q- as I physically removed the queens and subsequentially knocked down queen cells.
PH

How I read your post in building my response, and so goes without saying which
onsite checks you do on installing.

Bill

 

[birdsandbees]

Yes well that's the big American way to chuck queens/cells around and if they fight they fight.

I know my nucs were Q- as I physically removed the queens and subsequentially knocked down queen cells.

PH

That's a bit unfair, of all the USA and Canadian you tube beekeepers I rate Michael very highly, he's a very logical and cautious guy and certainly not part of the bung them all together and see what happens crowd.

I do know what you mean though some are just awful! I have commented on many but the replies I get aren't complimentary, well, you can take a horse to water...

 

[Poly Hive]

Its standard practice to take a pallet of four, split and add cells to all 8 and hope for the best. About as close to beekeeping as scything is to combine harvesting.

PH

 

[Walrus]

Yes well that's the big American way to chuck queens/cells around and if they fight they fight.

I know my nucs were Q- as I physically removed the queens and subsequentially knocked down queen cells.

PH

Admirable open mindedness and humility. I'm sure you can't learn a thing from those evil Americans.

 

[eltalia]

Admirable open mindedness and humility. I'm sure you can't learn a thing from those evil Americans.

For the larger commercials employing scores of staff it can get as 'savage' as
was described however down the ranks some into what is commonly named
"sidelining" there is no doubt time management takes priority.
And no stone throwing happening (here) as the very same is creeping into
commercial practice here in Aussie, particularly among the honeybadger and
package supplier outfits.

I hear you and agree one has to get out and about to know what goes on
beyond the fence.

Bill

 

[Poly Hive]

Oh I have Walrus trust me. I know what to avoid. I read all the Gleanings and ABJ's covering some 40 years. So obviously I have no knowledge to base my thoughts on eh?

Update on the cages. One has worked and one has failed. Looks as if they tunnelled under and let her out early DESPITE her laying she is gone. They are "proudly" sporting a queen cell the little expensive sods.

PH

 

[maddydog]

Oh I have Walrus trust me. I know what to avoid. I read all the Gleanings and ABJ's covering some 40 years. So obviously I have no knowledge to base my thoughts on eh?

Update on the cages. One has worked and one has failed. Looks as if they tunnelled under and let her out early DESPITE her laying she is gone. They are "proudly" sporting a queen cell the little expensive sods.

PH

Precisely the reason why I swapped from the plastic jobs to homemade metal ones.

 

[eltalia]

Oh I have Walrus trust me. I know what to avoid. I read all the Gleanings and ABJ's covering some 40 years. So obviously I have no knowledge to base my thoughts on eh?

Update on the cages. One has worked and one has failed. Looks as if they tunnelled under and let her out early DESPITE her laying she is gone. They are "proudly" sporting a queen cell the little expensive sods.

PH

From post #13;
"Whether on plastic or wax foundation make sure the legs of the cage go
right through to the other side of the frame and fold over the comb.
With wax foundation supply a mesh backing plate on that opposite side,
held in place by the legs."

....now you know why that info was put up.
Your lesson is not new... many who have had the same experience are now
those who say pushcages do not work. Ain't the cages n0t working but what
sits above the shoulders.

Bill

 

[Walrus]

So obviously I have no knowledge to base my thoughts on eh?

PH

Far from it PH! I have huge respect for your valuable experience and helpful posts on here.

 

[Poly Hive]

Thank you.

PH

 

[mintmoth]

Update on the cages. One has worked and one has failed. Looks as if they tunnelled under and let her out early DESPITE her laying she is gone. They are "proudly" sporting a queen cell the little expensive sods.
PH

I used push in cages to give new queens to 2 nucs - one bought, one homemade that pushed in much better. In both cases the queen had got out, but fortunately both had been accepted and were unharmed.

I made the homemade one with very deep sides and pushed it in so far that I worried the square of comb would be cut out, but she still got out.

 

[eltalia]

I used push in cages to give new queens to 2 nucs - one bought, one homemade that pushed in much better. In both cases the queen had got out, but fortunately both had been accepted and were unharmed.

I made the homemade one with very deep sides and pushed it in so far that I worried the square of comb would be cut out, but she still got out.

I will not be posting my design as these things tend to be picked up and
used for purpose outside of the spirit of forums.
I will offer though that too many of shop bought PCs are useless for
restriction of much more than 36hours, particularly where bees are hellbent
on despatching a queen - LWS colonys being the worst of it.
Around 3.5mm is the number where bees can still feed a restricted queen if
need be but cannot get to her, tunneling or balling inclusive. Around 150mm
square and 17mm off the comb provides sufficient space to prevent bees
cooking a queen. There is the works of design and build your own.

Bill

 

[rook66]

The cage that I trust and it works for me is the one with the double food compartment. The tab is removed and replaced with alum tape.so that they can be opened independently. I place it on the top bars covered with a plastic dish which has a viewing hole cut out. When the bees are no longer showing aggression ( bums up) then the small comp.is opened and the bees are allowed in to her, if all looks well after 24h then the other comp. is opened. Slow procedure but works for me.

 

[jeff33]

Oh I have Walrus trust me. I know what to avoid. I read all the Gleanings and ABJ's covering some 40 years. So obviously I have no knowledge to base my thoughts on eh?

Update on the cages. One has worked and one has failed. Looks as if they tunnelled under and let her out early DESPITE her laying she is gone. They are "proudly" sporting a queen cell the little expensive sods.

PH

I have had the same issue with 1 queen previously and now tend to pick a frame with newly capped brood on the other side which seems to stop them shewing their way through. I made my cages using #8 mesh with deep sides. I have to introduce 2 tomorrow so I will update on how it went.

 

[Stiffy]

Seems to happen regularly in my experience of push in cages. I am probably completely wrong but, I ‘try’ not to use a cage unless I know the queen is laying ie not travelled through the postal system. My thought is bees treat any queen (unless their own) that needs a few days to kick start laying again as an intruder, so may or may not accept. Any eggs she ‘splutters’ while getting going again are more readily accepted as being their own.
S

 

[jeff33]

1 of my queen (the cheapest) will be going in a split from a hell hive made of nurse bees with a frame of brood. They killed a queen I introduced 10 days ago. I have left them hopelessly Q- for 2 days to try and increase acceptance.

 

[Eyeman]

1 of my queen (the cheapest) will be going in a split from a hell hive made of nurse bees with a frame of brood. They killed a queen I introduced 10 days ago. I have left them hopelessly Q- for 2 days to try and increase acceptance.

Yes, no technique is fool proof, one just tries to increase one's chance of success.
I introduce upwards of 100 new queens each year when setting up nucs or requeening existing stock.
I use travel cages when I think the introduction should be 'easy' and a push in cage when 'difficult'. Key to success with the push in cage is observing the beaviour of the queen and bees once she is released and rechecking for queen cells once released.