Should package queen be flying?

[Into the lions den]

Hi Terry,
what is your bee suppliers take on this, what was his explanation ?
Good luck

Would be a little sad if the bees were given out to a novice with no instructions.

A new package can be a little nervous, and it is normal that the bulk bees and the queen are not actually from the same colonies. These are still achieving unity and upon installation in the hive should have an entrance reduced to a single beeway for the first few days, and you should NEVER go raking in the brood box for at least 10 days. I have heard some of the 'suspicious heads' say that is because it gives time for the supplier having given you a VQ to sort itself out, but that is generally untrue. It is the standard method to avoid stressing the bees any more than they have been already. Every day earlier than 10 days that you go into the nest area increases the failure rate. Go in in the first three days and it rockets.

The package should also be fed heavily on installation. A big syrup feed, like min.5, better 10 litres, not little bits of syrup.

Early disturbance can cause queen balling and absconding. At three days it is quite possible the queen has only just been released from the cage, possibly why there were still a lot of bees on the cage, as her pheromones were still abundant there. She would not be enlarged for laying yet, still nervous, still very 'flighty'. Most such queens are from mini nucs at source and will probably only have produced their first worker pattern laying.

You might get away with this but there is a serious risk you have gone in too early to investigate. You SHOULD have been given instructions that covered this.

 

[Haughton Honey]

What about positioning a QX under the brood box for the first 10 days after installing?

 

[For want of a better word]

What about positioning a QX under the brood box for the first 10 days after installing?

Would not that prevent the "possible" virgin queen from flying to mate?


I would prefer to sell or buy nucs, with a laying queen and known pedigree, I believe that the majority of respected UK breeders would ask what type of frame size / hive combination you would like your bees to be on?

Majority would also ask if you wanted the queen marked and clipped.

I may well clip any AI queens this time around ... not too keen to see all that hard work fly off into the deep blue yonder!

.... as for mutilating.....nice little lead in for the BOFs to pick up on!

 

[Haughton Honey]

Would not that prevent the "possible" virgin queen from flying to mate?

When, when one buys a package one expects a mated, laying Queen to arrive with it.

[/QUOTE]I would prefer to sell or buy nucs, with a laying queen and known pedigree, I believe that the majority of respected UK breeders would ask what type of frame size / hive combination you would like your bees to be on?[/QUOTE]

Try telling that to the 800-hive commercial keeper who may have lost 90% over the last year....and his/her livelihood if not able to import packages.

 

[Stiffy]

When, when one buys a package one expects a mated, laying Queen to arrive with it.

I would prefer to sell or buy nucs, with a laying queen and known pedigree, I believe that the majority of respected UK breeders would ask what type of frame size / hive combination you would like your bees to be on?[/QUOTE]

Try telling that to the 800-hive commercial keeper who may have lost 90% over the last year....and his/her livelihood if not able to import packages.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, having been there and got the ticket, like me you have risen to the bait and responded to the loaded reply from Icanprovoke!
S

 

[Terry G]

Hi Terry,
what is your bee suppliers take on this, what was his explanation ?
Good luck

Have emailed him - no reply yet...

 

[Terry G]

Now I'm even more worried! Was told by supplier to go in after 3 days to release the queen if she hadn't already emerged, and to remove the cage. Hope I haven't cocked everything up by doing that.
Bees are flying today, and on cherry blossom, but after 4 days still not taking syrup.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would prefer to sell or buy nucs, with a laying queen and known pedigree, I believe that the majority of respected UK breeders would ask what type of frame size / hive combination you would like your bees to be on?

Rather blinkered and predjuduced IMHO some respected and honest breeders/suppliers on here might take issue with that!
Few of the advantages of packages - you can put them into whatever hive/frame pattern you like, also no drawn comb of unknown provenance to bring any nasties to your apiary.

 

[beeno]

Now I'm even more worried! Was told by supplier to go in after 3 days to release the queen if she hadn't already emerged, and to remove the cage. Hope I haven't cocked everything up by doing that.
Bees are flying today, and on cherry blossom, but after 4 days still not taking syrup.

Hi Terry G,
They are foraging. That's a good sign and four days is still very early days! What are they on? Foundation or some drawn combs? Some colonies get going straight away others take a week to 10 days. Nothing you can do but wait. Hope they work out and they probably will.

 

[Terry G]

Hi Terry G,
They are foraging. That's a good sign and four days is still very early days! What are they on? Foundation or some drawn combs? Some colonies get going straight away others take a week to 10 days. Nothing you can do but wait. Hope they work out and they probably will.

Thanks for your reassuring words - just what I need at this stage!
They are on foundation so I guess it's going to take some time to draw comb out.
Isn't it extraordinary how anxious one can feel about a bunch of insects?

 

[For want of a better word]

I would prefer to sell or buy nucs, with a laying queen and known pedigree, I believe that the majority of respected UK breeders would ask what type of frame size / hive combination you would like your bees to be on?

Try telling that to the 800-hive commercial keeper who may have lost 90% over the last year....and his/her livelihood if not able to import packages.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, having been there and got the ticket, like me you have risen to the bait and responded to the loaded reply from Icanprovoke!
S[/QUOTE]

OP was not buying 800 packages...... perhaps new beekeepers or those wishing to take up the hobby would appreciate some discussion on how best to buy their bees, the problems that may be encountered, and perhaps with luck some good advice, and that was my take on the discussion.

How many colonies does the average UK beekeeper keep ..... 3, 6, 9 ,12 ?

Indeed we all feel great sadness for the commercial beekeepers who now need to restock, also sad about the fact that the established beebreeders in the UK will not be able to meet this unusual demand.

Sniffy...
There are 2 sides to every argument by definition... and at least three in beekeeping!

 

[Beauhawk]

Isn't it extraordinary how anxious one can feel about a bunch of insects?

I know exactly what you mean... We got our bees at the same time, from the same person... I am fighting back the need to view!!

 

[beekeeping4you]

Now I'm even more worried! Was told by supplier to go in after 3 days to release the queen if she hadn't already emerged, and to remove the cage. Hope I haven't cocked everything up by doing that.
Bees are flying today, and on cherry blossom, but after 4 days still not taking syrup.

Hi Terry,
We check the introduction cages already after 48hrs. If the queen has not already emerged we do not simply 'release' her, I think it's better to remove the (remaining?) candy completely and allow the first workers to enter the cage and make contact to the queen before she goes out on her own. A full, sudden release could lead to balling. This first inspection should be done without smoke if possible.
I think the reason for your 'problem' was the cage that dropped down to the bottom. How could that happen?

...after 4 days still not taking syrup?
Could it be that your bees are suffering from the "Shaken Bee Syndrome"? Many YouTube videos show why/how it is caused by spraying them generously with syrup through the mesh until everything is sticky followed by violently bumping them around in the box.

Regards
Reiner

Here is a video that demonstrates a much softer way of hiving package bees. (if it should be regarded as 'self advertising' by someone, no problem, inform admin and let him look after it...)


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRM8yAHFghQ[/ame]

 

[beeno]

Thanks for your reassuring words - just what I need at this stage!
They are on foundation so I guess it's going to take some time to draw comb out.
Isn't it extraordinary how anxious one can feel about a bunch of insects?

Yes, Terry, but they are rather expensive insects!

 

[Terry G]

Yes, Terry, but they are rather expensive insects!

Hence the anxiety, probably!

 

[Stiffy]

Thanks for your reassuring words - just what I need at this stage!
They are on foundation so I guess it's going to take some time to draw comb out.
Isn't it extraordinary how anxious one can feel about a bunch of insects?

I have to deal with some awful companies and really nasty people at work and find myself waking up at night in state about the bees.......am I bxxxdy daft or what!
If they are out and foraging then things cant be too bad, worse case scenario you put in another queen if they reject the one you tried.
S

 

[straightman21]

I shall keep my fingers nervously but firmly crossed.
And I thought beekeeping was going to be a tranquil, calming experience!

We all made that mistake - Once!!

 

[mbc]

Hi Terry,
We check the introduction cages already after 48hrs. If the queen has not already emerged we do not simply 'release' her, I think it's better to remove the (remaining?) candy completely and allow the first workers to enter the cage and make contact to the queen before she goes out on her own. A full, sudden release could lead to balling. This first inspection should be done without smoke if possible.
I think the reason for your 'problem' was the cage that dropped down to the bottom. How could that happen?

...after 4 days still not taking syrup?
Could it be that your bees are suffering from the "Shaken Bee Syndrome"? Many YouTube videos show why/how it is caused by spraying them generously with syrup through the mesh until everything is sticky followed by violently bumping them around in the box.

Regards
Reiner

Here is a video that demonstrates a much softer way of hiving package bees. (if it should be regarded as 'self advertising' by someone, no problem, inform admin and let him look after it...)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRM8yAHFghQ

Who sells those boxes ?

 

[blackie]

welcome terry

 

[ellypatt]

Bees are flying today, and on cherry blossom, but after 4 days still not taking syrup.

Did you trickle a little bit down from the feeder so they know it's there?

Hope things turn out ok with your queen. I often dream about my bees, usually anxiety dreams