should juniors be allowed to keep bees?

[Cazza]

Just after WWII my 8 year old father-in-law looked after 100 hives...

I don't think his pet owl (resuced after it's parents were killed) that followed him to school would go down too well now either. No - I checked - it wasn't Hogwarts.

Well done that boy but beekeeping was much simpler then, not many people inspected the brood regularly. My old mentor kept bees then and he would peek through his glass quilt weekly but that was about it.

I had a pet pheasant once, he would follow me around too.
Cazza

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi all,
Actually, changed my mind, I do have a problem with anyone under the age of 17 years keeping bees in their own right as they are not in law a legally responsible adult thus the landowner and/or parent need to take responsibility. There is more time, effort and knowledge required in looking after bees responsibly than many people realise and this is the reason why so many of us are retired people. Swarm season would also clash with exam timetables of school children.

That's it then - better ban the little buggers altogether - from now on only those over 70 should be allowed to keep bees.
That's me out for a while as well - having a full time job and being under 50
If Ben Pullen is still lurking around here somewhere maybe he should be told as well being under the age of majority

 

[MartinL]

At what point did "children" become "juniors" in the U.K?

When the PC Mob took over.

Now, use of the word "Kids" is right out!

I think you'll find that the usual Political Correct Bo!!cks is now, "YOUNG PEOPLE"!

 

[Cazza]

If Ben Pullen is still lurking around here somewhere maybe he should be told as well being under the age of majority

Where is Ben? Anyone? I've missed his youthful forthrightness and surety. I'm sure he'd have something cogent to say on the subject of "juniors."
Cazza

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ben was last on here early last month - maybe he has other distractions at the moment in addition to cricket and studies being now 'of that age'

 

[georgia b]

Actually, changed my mind, I do have a problem with anyone under the age of 17 years keeping bees in their own right as they are not in law a legally responsible adult thus the landowner and/or parent need to take responsibility. There is more time, effort and knowledge required in looking after bees responsibly than many people realise and this is the reason why so many of us are retired people. Swarm season would also clash with exam timetables of school children.

What a shame that you think no-one under the age of 17 is responsible enough to keep bees in their own right. Yes there are young people that are irresponsible but surely it applies to adults as well?
Yes there is a lot to learn, but no matter what your age is you've got to learn it. Some of us young people can be just as determind and eager to learn about keeping bees as older people are. I have heard a lot of older people's tales about how they started beekeeping many years ago when they were young, even young they when I started.
Yes swarming may clash with the exams I have next year, but doesn't it clash with people going to work? But thats why I practice swarm control.

Georgia

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But i hope you had your parent's permission to say all that

 

[georgia b]

Dad said to me: engage my brain before talking and if you go round saying the wrong things to the wrong people and get a punch in the hooter its your own fault, that way I'll learn about life.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Dad said to me: engage my brain before talking

You won't really fit in on this forum then

 

[REDWOOD]

Have I been missing something in my life but as I recall I went to a junior school and then to a senior school, I can never remember going to a children's school, the only thing I can vividly remember that if I was naughty my mother was sending me to the children's home. So a Senior is a young adult, not quite mature as some of us but capable of making conscious decisions with conclusions that might not be the right one but that's part of the big learning curve. I'm sure that we all have regretted thing we done in the passed and would do it differently if had a second chance.

 

[beeno]

What a shame that you think no-one under the age of 17 is responsible enough to keep bees in their own right. Yes there are young people that are irresponsible but surely it applies to adults as well?
Yes there is a lot to learn, but no matter what your age is you've got to learn it. Some of us young people can be just as determind and eager to learn about keeping bees as older people are. I have heard a lot of older people's tales about how they started beekeeping many years ago when they were young, even young they when I started.
Yes swarming may clash with the exams I have next year, but doesn't it clash with people going to work? But thats why I practice swarm control.

Georgia

Hi Georgia,
I am not saying that 'no-one under the age of 17 is responsible enough to keep bees in their own right'. What I am saying is that until the age of 17 you are not seen as an adult in law. So in practice the landowner/parents would be responsible for the actions of your bees should they become a nuisance to other people. Society and norms are forever changing, 'things are not what they used to be', and not always sadly for the better.

 

[beeno]

Sounds like a description of rugby

Or clubbing or a fotball match

 

[beeno]

That's it then - better ban the little buggers altogether - from now on only those over 70 should be allowed to keep bees.
That's me out for a while as well - having a full time job and being under 50
If Ben Pullen is still lurking around here somewhere maybe he should be told as well being under the age of majority

Hi jenkinsbrynmair,
That is what I am concerned about - banning the little buggers altogether, but bees in my case. When a beekeeper is called out to remove a swarm for free and turns around and says 'it is inaccessible you have to call out pest control' it costs the non-beekeeper money. Cavity walls and eves seems to be a popular place to hang out and 'it is not my bees' will probably not cut it in the long run.

 

[Travelator]

It is nice to know that so many people support young people keeping bees. However I do not like that the BBKA are making the parent/guardian, of a junior, join up as a full memeber. Yes the parent should be a member, but is being a full member necessary, surely an associate is enough? And then what of parents that have no intrest in keeping bees and wouldn't join up as memeber no matter what?

Georgia

I think that this is to do with insurance. The BBKA Junior membership doesn't include 3rd party and product liability insurance (not sure whether this is a legal constraint or a choice by BBKA, probably the former). So you need a parent (or other adult?) to join as a full member in order to actually have a chance of being covered.

Incidentally, I think the reason this thread refers to "Juniors" instead of "kids", "nippers", "young people", "younger beekeepers" or whatever is that the BBKA membership class for under 18's is called "Junior"

 

[georgia b]

I think that this is to do with insurance. The BBKA Junior membership doesn't include 3rd party and product liability insurance (not sure whether this is a legal constraint or a choice by BBKA, probably the former). So you need a parent (or other adult?) to join as a full member in order to actually have a chance of being covered.

hello Travelator,
I have been in touch with the BBKA about the insurance policy for 3rd party and product liability and they have told me that juniors are covered. Also, just to make sure, I got in touch with Towergate (the insurance broker) and they have told me 'there is no age limit to the policy no matter how young or old you are as long as you're a member of the BBKA.'
So why do you have to have a parent/gaurdian paid as a full member to be covered?

Georgia

 

[beeno]

hello Travelator,
I have been in touch with the BBKA about the insurance policy for 3rd party and product liability and they have told me that juniors are covered. Also, just to make sure, I got in touch with Towergate (the insurance broker) and they have told me 'there is no age limit to the policy no matter how young or old you are as long as you're a member of the BBKA.'
So why do you have to have a parent/gaurdian paid as a full member to be covered?

Georgia

They are covering themselves...

 

[BeeJayBee]

What I am saying is that until the age of 17 you are not seen as an adult in law.

I think you'll find it's 18, not 17.

It's a good job the same rule doesn't apply everywhere, otherwise we might have missed out on some Olympic medals.

Growing up is a gradual process, gradually learning and taking responsibility. Being adult is a mindset as well as an age, it doesn't magically happen at the flick of a calendar when somebody turns 18.

I see nothing wrong with 'juniors' being allowed, or able, to keep their own bees, dogs, cats, cattle or sheep etc.. Nor do I mind if they want to throw themselves down mountains on planks of wood or do fancy stunts on bikes.

 

[georgia b]

The point I'm trying to get across is, if you have a competant young beekeeper who can manage their hive/s in a proper maner and are covered by insurance. But they have a parent/guardian who doesn't want to keep bees or over-see them, why shouldn't they be allowed to be joined as a full memeber in their own right?

 

[BeeJayBee]

The point I'm trying to get across is, if you have a competant young beekeeper who can manage their hive/s in a proper maner and are covered by insurance. But they have a parent/guardian who doesn't want to keep bees or over-see them, why shouldn't they be allowed to be joined as a full memeber in their own right?

It was discussed in 2011 http://twickenham-bees.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/bbka-junior-membership-adm-update.html I haven't got time to search for anything more up to date, but the issues relating to Junior Membership should have been discussed and dealt with at the 2012 ADM.

 

[Travelator]

hello Travelator,
I have been in touch with the BBKA about the insurance policy for 3rd party and product liability and they have told me that juniors are covered. Also, just to make sure, I got in touch with Towergate (the insurance broker) and they have told me 'there is no age limit to the policy no matter how young or old you are as long as you're a member of the BBKA.'
So why do you have to have a parent/gaurdian paid as a full member to be covered?

Georgia

That's interesting and I hope it's true. The copy of the BBKA constitution on the website says that Juniors don't get 3rd party insurance but it may be inaccurate or out of date.

As to why I said that Juniors owning colonies was "unfair" and "too much responsibility", that's obviously my subjective opinion and I can't demand that everyone agrees with it. Actually, I think it's great for you to take responsibility and make mistakes, and I totally agree that you're probably better qualified to manage colonies than many adult beekeepers.
However I also think that it's unfair for parents or adults in general to allow children or young adults to dig themselves into too deep a hole. So if you get flu, exam stress, swarming and EFB all at the same time I don't think it's OK for us to say "just deal with it" - we ought to be ready and prepared to help out any way we can.