Shaking bees from frames - question

[BernardBlack]

When inspecting, some frames are absolutely covered with bees. Huge numbers. So much that I can see nothing else. So I’ve had to shake bees off frames, into the hive to get a better look.

My question is - if I shook the bees off a frame, and the Queen was on that frame, would it do her any harm being shaken off into the hive?


PS. I actually think the bees are preparing to swarm due to the huge numbers, even though I’ve added another brood box to give them space. Discovered 2 Q cups with eggs, so will monitor.

 

[Beefriendly]

It depends....sometimes giving them space just as they are making plans to swarm (eggs in queen cups) stops them...sometimes it doesn't..
Sometimes they stop of their own accord without you giving them any more space...well my Buckfast sometimes do.
Sometimes with all the space they need they will swarm....well my local mongrels always did..... every year...... twice if they could get away with it...
Check carefully next inspection.
Fingers crossed.

Shouldn't hurt queen, but not something you really want to do frequently...although she is usually tightly clinging... a gentle shake will dislodge most of the older bees and may give you a chance to spot her before giving a sharp sudden shake to get rid of most of the others.

 

[thedozzer]

When inspecting, some frames are absolutely covered with bees. Huge numbers. So much that I can see nothing else. So I’ve had to shake bees off frames, into the hive to get a better look.

My question is - if I shook the bees off a frame, and the Queen was on that frame, would it do her any harm being shaken off into the hive?


PS. I actually think the bees are preparing to swarm due to the huge numbers, even though I’ve added another brood box to give them space. Discovered 2 Q cups with eggs, so will monitor.

Hi Bernard. as another beginner can only suggest that if you do need to shake the frames off, learn to look for the queen, ours have a habit of hiding on the bottom/side of the frame, also have found that if you gently brush the back of your hand over them, they move out the way so you can see what's on that bit of the frame.

Good luck with the QC's we have a similar issue with one of our hives.

 

[BernardBlack]

It depends....sometimes giving them space just as they are making plans to swarm (eggs in queen cups) stops them...sometimes it doesn't..
Sometimes they stop of their own accord without you giving them any more space...well my Buckfast sometimes do.
Sometimes with all the space they need they will swarm....well my local mongrels always did..... every year...... twice if they could get away with it...
Check carefully next inspection.
Fingers crossed.

Shouldn't hurt queen, but not something you really want to do frequently...although she is usually tightly clinging... a gentle shake will dislodge most of the older bees and may give you a chance to spot her before giving a sharp sudden shake to get rid of most of the others.

They’ve had the extra brood box about 2 weeks. This is the first I’ve spotted eggs in Q cups. They may decide against taking it further though. I’ve seen that before.

Just thought the huge numbers might be the reason if they do intend swarming. Because everything else seems perfect - Q laying, no disease, adequate stores/space.

@thedozzer - I did spot Q on a frame, and gently blew on bees of that frame to inspect. The other frames, where I knew she wasn’t on, I shook them off.

I will try not to shake if she’s on there, but the numbers on them were crazy. It was like something you’d have seen on Liverpool’s Kop in the 70’s!

@beefriendly - what’s the reason older bees fall off easier? Remember hearing this before but can’t recall why.

 

[bingevader]

Blowing on the bees also works, with the corner of the frame resting on the frames in the box.
Had you thought about a pre-emptive split of the colony if you think it is that busy and the extra space hasn't helped?

 

[For want of a better word]

If you are seeing queen cells with eggs in them, it could be that they are going into supercedure mode, in readiness to replace the queen.... Buckfasts ( Whatever they are?) just swarm... it is their Mediterranean genetics I am afraid!
Get some supers on and give them space and something to do.
Shame JBM has been put on the naughty step... he would have put a link up for you to the Welsh Beekeepers site... magnificently describing the different kinds of queen cells with good photographs and descriptions.......

Chons da

 

[Millet]

If i am unsure the horse hair bee brush works a treat and i have no risk of damaging any hidden Queen cells i may want to keep..

 

[Show me the honey]

Why did anyone have to bring race of bee into this! get a life! Unless your about to tell me one can hold on to a frame longer than the other! ( I’m almost waiting for it)

It’s time to stop this rubbish

 

[Millet]

Why did anyone have to bring race of bee into this! get a life! Unless your about to tell me one can hold on to a frame longer than the other! ( I’m almost waiting for it)

It’s time to stop this rubbish

Ehh.

 

[B+.]

If i am unsure the horse hair bee brush works a treat and i have no risk of damaging any hidden Queen cells i may want to keep..

I find that a handful of grass works better than any bee brush I've ever owned. It doesn't seen to irritate them

 

[Show me the honey]

Ehh.

The op is asking if shaking bees could harm the queen

 

[bingevader]

Shame JBM has been put on the naughty step... he would have put a link up for you to the Welsh Beekeepers site... magnificently describing the different kinds of queen cells with good photographs and descriptions.......

Do you mean this one?

View attachment There-Are-Queen-Cells-In-My-Hive-WBKA-WAG.pdf

 

[Show me the honey]

I find that a handful of grass works better than any bee brush I've ever owned. It doesn't seen to irritate them

I bought a brush when I first started but they got tangled in it. Now just blow on the frame. Didn’t think about using some grass

 

[Millet]

I find that a handful of grass works better than any bee brush I've ever owned. It doesn't seen to irritate them

Brilliant tip..one that this little brain should have thought of..

 

[Beefriendly]

Hate to say it but I use a brush. Frequently.
No problems at all......
Except when it gets a bit sticky if I use it for clearing bees from supers....so I carry 2 with me.
Get an occasional bee stuck in the bristles but easily freed. Doesn't seem to upset them or cause all these other problems others go on about etc...
Try one for yourself and make your own mind up.

 

[Millet]

The op is asking if shaking bees could harm the queen

Yip.. he/she sure is..

 

[Millet]

Hate to say it but I use a brush. Frequently.
No problems at all......
Except when it gets a bit sticky if I use it for clearing bees from supers....so I carry 2 with me.
Get an occasional bee stuck in the bristles but easily freed. Doesn't seem to upset them or cause all these other problems others go on about etc...
Try one for yourself and make your own mind up.

Perfect..

 

[Eyeman]

I bought a brush when I first started but they got tangled in it. Now just blow on the frame. Didn’t think about using some grass

The trick is to not use the brush as a brush as this will simply roll the bees and get them agitated. The brush can be used to gently 'push' the bees off the frames without rolling, that's why other methods ie. feathers work equally well.

 

[Poly Hive]

Brushing bees is madness they just hate it.

There is no need to shake the combs so fiercely that all the bees are removed. I light shake to see if the brood is ok is all you need.

This drive to see into every cell on every comb is sorry to say classic beginners behaviour. There is no need to provided there is BIAS and no sign of the diseases that so many obsess over then all is well.

ITLD has his crews trained to take a max of 6 mins per hive. I have heard 4 minutes being mentioned by others so why is it taking so much longer for so many?

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

The trick is to not use the brush as a brush as this will simply roll the bees and get them agitated. The brush can be used to gently 'push' the bees off the frames without rolling, that's why other methods ie. feathers work equally well.

Exactly, it's all in the technique of using brush. Some have it others , it appears don't.