Shaking bees from frames - question

[Beefriendly]

ITLD has his crews trained to take a max of 6 mins per hive. I have heard 4 minutes being mentioned by others so why is it taking so much longer for so many?

PH

World of difference between the time pressures on a huge commercial beekeeping company looking through 1000's of hives and a backyard hobbyist with only a few.

 

[eltalia]

When inspecting, some frames are absolutely covered with bees. Huge numbers. So much that I can see nothing else. So I’ve had to shake bees off frames, into the hive to get a better look.

It is a decision made "on the fly" as with time in practice a mere scanning
action of a few seconds is ample to determine colony health.
When deciding to shake layering off it is a quick flick of the wrists as the
turned frame becomes vertical - held by the ears. Anything else in clearing
frames requires time, so only done when absolutely necessary.
Both brush and bird's wing are more of a slow sweep moreso than brushing
off as in brushing cloth, and best done with the frame sitting on end over the
surface swept onto.
Blowing bees off either mechanicly or by mouth is not advisable.
The first has whole of colony impact, the second subjects bees to CO2
levels they are going to react to - someone will be getting stung.
Often it simply takes a little smoke followed by a sweep to remove stragglers
and job is done.

My question is - if I shook the bees off a frame, and the Queen was on that frame, would it do her any harm being shaken off into the hive?

No.
If queen spotting it helps to have a queen excluder over the box.

PS. I actually think the bees are preparing to swarm due to the huge numbers, even though I’ve added another brood box to give them space. Discovered 2 Q cups with eggs, so will monitor.

Numbers aside - we run our colonys at CM (critical mass) during the
season, bees cascading over the sides of the box on inspections - it is more
helpfull for beginners to adhere to a single adage "control the queen
to then control the bees". This as it is the bees who determine a swarm
issue in choosing to reproduce/replicate the colony.
A simplest and most positive first step is to add a queen restrictor (QR) to
the entrance. This denial of queen flying sends bees the message swarming
is not possible, resulting in none of the usual signs appearing. Exceptions
occur, sure... but the final outcome is always the same - no queen flying
equals no swarm issue from that colony.
Attached is a retail example of such a device.
Help?


Bill

 

[Eyeman]

Brushing bees is madness they just hate it.

There is no need to shake the combs so fiercely that all the bees are removed. I light shake to see if the brood is ok is all you need.

This drive to see into every cell on every comb is sorry to say classic beginners behaviour. There is no need to provided there is BIAS and no sign of the diseases that so many obsess over then all is well.

ITLD has his crews trained to take a max of 6 mins per hive. I have heard 4 minutes being mentioned by others so why is it taking so much longer for so many?

PH

Foul brood is initially is seen in a couple of cells so if your not exposing them all your going to miss the early signs. Basic beginners mistake.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Hate to say it but I use a brush. Frequently.
No problems at all......
Except when it gets a bit sticky if I use it for clearing bees from supers....so I carry 2 with me.
Get an occasional bee stuck in the bristles but easily freed. Doesn't seem to upset them or cause all these other problems others go on about etc...
Try one for yourself and make your own mind up.

Same here...always use it for clearing capped and ready supers after initial shake. Not one problem ever.

 

[Poly Hive]

Fair enough if it works for you but I can assure you it trully pissed off the bees I tried it with and it got dumped.

So you check every brood cell every visit for FB? Really??

PH

 

[Antipodes]

I bought an American brush which seemed to be the only one available in the shop. It has quite stiff nylon looking bristles and it did seem to agitate the bees. I wondered using it might damage a queen... I've since seen much softer ones for sale which might have been better. I've used feathery silver wattle leaves (mimosa in the UK) as a quick substitute for a brush.

 

[masterBK]

I often just use a handful of grass rather than a brush to clear combs with cells on I may wish to keep (the rest I usually shake them loff).

 

[BernardBlack]

It is a decision made "on the fly" as with time in practice a mere scanning
action of a few seconds is ample to determine colony health.
When deciding to shake layering off it is a quick flick of the wrists as the
turned frame becomes vertical - held by the ears. Anything else in clearing
frames requires time, so only done when absolutely necessary.
Both brush and bird's wing are more of a slow sweep moreso than brushing
off as in brushing cloth, and best done with the frame sitting on end over the
surface swept onto.
Blowing bees off either mechanicly or by mouth is not advisable.
The first has whole of colony impact, the second subjects bees to CO2
levels they are going to react to - someone will be getting stung.
Often it simply takes a little smoke followed by a sweep to remove stragglers
and job is done.

No.
If queen spotting it helps to have a queen excluder over the box.

Numbers aside - we run our colonys at CM (critical mass) during the
season, bees cascading over the sides of the box on inspections - it is more
helpfull for beginners to adhere to a single adage "control the queen
to then control the bees". This as it is the bees who determine a swarm
issue in choosing to reproduce/replicate the colony.
A simplest and most positive first step is to add a queen restrictor (QR) to
the entrance. This denial of queen flying sends bees the message swarming
is not possible, resulting in none of the usual signs appearing. Exceptions
occur, sure... but the final outcome is always the same - no queen flying
equals no swarm issue from that colony.
Attached is a retail example of such a device.
Help?


Bill

Bill, just out of interest, what would happen if you did place a Queen Excluder or Queen Restrictor at the entrance all the time?

Not that I’d consider it. Just never thought about how the bees would react if you did resort to such tactics.

 

[Show me the honey]

The trick is to not use the brush as a brush as this will simply roll the bees and get them agitated. The brush can be used to gently 'push' the bees off the frames without rolling, that's why other methods ie. feathers work equally well.

Ah I see. I was probably a bit heavy handed to fair in those first few inspections and then it was put the back of the cupboard. Might give her another go

Tanks

 

[Ian123]

As above a big old goose wing feather was cheap alternative

 

[Eyeman]

Fair enough if it works for you but I can assure you it trully pissed off the bees I tried it with and it got dumped.

So you check every brood cell every visit for FB? Really??

PH

Usually do 'thorough disease check for foul brood twice, early then late season. That's when I'd make sure I can see all the brood

 

[Millet]

Fair enough if it works for you but I can assure you it trully pissed off the bees I tried it with and it got dumped.

PH

Rather learn how to use a bee brush or change the Queens..i am in no rush during inspections..slow and methodical so to speak..a light slow brush brush does the trick and if the Queen is not presant a gentle shake almost clears the frames..to be honest though shaking and brushing cause the same supposedly pissed of bees..

 

[eltalia]

(edit)
...to be honest though shaking and brushing cause the same supposedly pissed of bees..

errrmm, only 'cos they are highly defensive.
Why that is can be sorted tho' some choose not to - many a myth
around that choice.
But whatever.... buggerall to do with which whatever clearing
method is used.

Bill

 

[Millet]

errrmm, only 'cos they are highly defensive.
Why that is can be sorted tho' some choose not to - many a myth
around that choice.
But whatever.... buggerall to do with which whatever clearing
method is used.

Bill

We will see...say We will see..

 

[eltalia]

We will see...say We will see..

Redundant prevarication (word?)
Been seen to be true... pretty much written in stone.
/smiles/

Bill

 

[Curley]

Handful of grass is cheaper than a brush and can be changed between hives.
A brush has the potential to spread disease between colonies.
Though I do use one at harvest time for those last few bees in the super

 

[Harley1]

I only brush if there's still a few bees when I'm removing supers above a clearer board. I pick a few big sprigs of Rosemary on my way to the hives and they seem the perfect softness to gently sweep the odd bee from the frames with no mess and the bees seem not to mind at all. Smells nice, too.