Selling honey through shops

[Swarm]

Hope they learned their lesson!!

It hurts when the "local" 2 hive owner dumps their honey at some ridiculous cheap price into one of "your" outlets...
but very satisfying when it granulates and trading standards find ***** fur in the badly labelled jars!!

Yes that really happened!!!!

Yeghes da

What really hurts is our butcher has closed. Owned by a consortium of local farmers. providing quality, sourced meat but not enough support.
They offered to sell our honey and had regular customers extolling its virtues. Sadly, the cafe next door is not interested in selling it so a few good customers have lost out.

 

[Stiffy]

Beginners: Read posts with care

As this is a section for beginners, I doubt many on this forum have a honey pasteurisation facility to prevent the granulation of honey which is very normal and ‘normally’ shows a high sugar content and is nothing to worry about.
S

 

[For want of a better word]

As this is a section for beginners, I doubt many on this forum have a honey pasteurisation facility to prevent the granulation of honey which is very normal and ‘normally’ shows a high sugar content and is nothing to worry about.
S

For the beginners and some of the longer standing forum posters and others possibly not yet competent at bottling jars of honey .....

A simple internet search will take you to professional manufactured "Honey Granulation" labels that can easily be affixed to honey jars such as....

https://www.bees-online.co.uk/detaillabel.asp?ID=75&name=Granulated-Honey-Label---WHITE---Option-2

Also perhaps peruse the UK Honey regulations.....

We have our labels checked by Cornwall Trading Standards and also are (at the moment) the only honey producers to have the PRODUCT OF CORNWALL Approved Origin Cornwall Council certification for our Cornish Black Bee Honey produced and bottled in Cornwall by ( DNA) tested Cornish variant of our native black honey bee.

The bees produce the honey... we process and bottle it... to avoid any misunderstanding!!
Chons da

 

[Ian123]

Lol that’s a can of worms in itself am sure but happy to be proved wrong that you’ve mentioned some sites that the stripy mongrels go do you separate the honey. And do you test your production hives before harvesting to make sure some tart of a foreign drone has not got in the mix. Am not trying to be funny!!

 

[For want of a better word]

Lol that’s a can of worms in itself am sure but happy to be proved wrong that you’ve mentioned some sites that the stripy mongrels go do you separate the honey. And do you test your production hives before harvesting to make sure some tart of a foreign drone has not got in the mix. Am not trying to be funny!!

I can understand that confusion.

We are small enough to be able to extract and bottle from individual colonies, seasonallity and forage makes a marked difference to the colour and flavour of honey... appreciated by the honey officianados!!!!

The Cornish Black Bee Honey is from colonies that have been DNA tested and "purity" is at a level that distinguishes them from other colonies of bees that fall below the benchmark.

We move the "stripies" out to apiaries far enough away not to allow drone introgression.... mostly across the Tamar into Devon.... we also sell Devon Golden Bee Honey, which is also very yumshoush!!

We get to keep "Buckfasts Italian Hybrids" almost by default.

The numbers of beekeepers keeping the Cornish Amm are increasing ,many are lucky enough to keep bees in areas that are becoming increasingly dominated by our native bees... Rame Peninsular and Lynher Valley particularly.

Going a bit
Back to shops and granulation!

 

[iann41]

Is honey taxable.

Just looked on the net and Imported honey has an import tariff of 12.5% and is taxable at 20%.

Uk honey I understand is 0% vat (I could be wrong) as it's a food stuff.

If the above is true, how would a shop or outlet calculate the final price of a locally produced jar of honey?

 

[WoodenBeam]

Didn’t realise imported Honey had duty & vat on............I’m guessing that doesn’t apply to EU produce though, as for blends EU/Non EU no idea!
Yes to our uk honey being zero rated.
As for the retail price in shops, well that’s up to the owner to decide. Your non local Honey though in theory would be sold and 20% of that price would be vat.

 

[For want of a better word]

Is honey taxable.



Just looked on the net and Imported honey has an import tariff of 12.5% and is taxable at 20%.

Uk honey I understand is 0% vat (I could be wrong) as it's a food stuff.

If the above is true, how would a shop or outlet calculate the final price of a locally produced jar of honey?

The people bottling the honey would claim back the VAT charged on the imported honey ( but not the import tarriff) No VAT would be charged to the wholesaler or end user as foodstuffs are charged at 0%

As applied to food stuffs...
It seems providing that the product is of a higher value than the container the "jar of honey" is sold VAT free... the foodstuff is at zero whilst the VAT charged by the jar supplier on the container is reclaimable... if the person selling the product ( filled jar ) is VAT registered.

Seems to be the same for selling (nucs) of bees

No VAT on the livestock (bees) but if the nuc box is worth substancially less than the bees then there is no VAT chargeable to the end user on the whole package ( Bees + nuc)

Regulations differ with such things a perfumes, alcohol and many other items we get taxed 20%.

Buy a Land Rover Defender ( New "rebuilds" available at £35K+ !) and VAT can be recovered if being used mainly as a "farms" vehicle.
Buy a Landrover "Rangerover" type vehicle and VAT is not recoverable, even if you try to convince HMRC that it is going to be used as a "farms" vehicle.

Not really a can of worms... unless of course the can is made from solid gold!

Best check with HMRC

Chons da

 

[Murox]

Didn’t realise imported Honey had duty & vat on............I’m guessing that doesn’t apply to EU produce though, as for blends EU/Non EU no idea!
Yes to our uk honey being zero rated.
As for the retail price in shops, well that’s up to the owner to decide. Your non local Honey though in theory would be sold and 20% of that price would be vat.

Thats the case for almost all goods - if only the british were to haggle and query prices more....................

 

[Jimmy]

Please could a link to where it states that non-EU honey is standard VAT rated be given.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Please could a link to where it states that non-EU honey is standard VAT rated be given.

It's not - I think he's talking of bulk import duties not retail

 

[Jimmy]

It's not - I think he's talking of bulk import duties not retail

Thanks, that's what I could find out without disappearing down a VAT rabbit hole on the Gov.uk website.
So is VAT payable on the import duty? It is on wine AFAIK. Good careful drafting of the legislation bringing extra revenue .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks, that's what I could find out without disappearing down a VAT rabbit hole on the Gov.uk website.
So is VAT payable on the import duty? It is on wine AFAIK. Good careful drafting of the legislation bringing extra revenue .

Import duties, tarriffs and VAT thereon is a dark art which, thankfully I never dabbled much with, the tarriffs were massive tomes which sat in the corner of the EPU (Entry processing unit) guarded by a band of gnomes
Working at the Airport bench or Ship's boarding we were allowed (for smallish 'personal' imports) a simplified flat rate system, but yes, VAT was levied on the whole duty added amount.
And as for Persian carpets....................

 

[Hebeegeebee]

The people bottling the honey would claim back the VAT charged on the imported honey ( but not the import tarriff) No VAT would be charged to the wholesaler or end user as foodstuffs are charged at 0%

As applied to food stuffs...
It seems providing that the product is of a higher value than the container the "jar of honey" is sold VAT free... the foodstuff is at zero whilst the VAT charged by the jar supplier on the container is reclaimable... if the person selling the product ( filled jar ) is VAT registered.

Seems to be the same for selling (nucs) of bees

No VAT on the livestock (bees) but if the nuc box is worth substancially less than the bees then there is no VAT chargeable to the end user on the whole package ( Bees + nuc)

Regulations differ with such things a perfumes, alcohol and many other items we get taxed 20%.

Buy a Land Rover Defender ( New "rebuilds" available at £35K+ !) and VAT can be recovered if being used mainly as a "farms" vehicle.
Buy a Landrover "Rangerover" type vehicle and VAT is not recoverable, even if you try to convince HMRC that it is going to be used as a "farms" vehicle.

Not really a can of worms... unless of course the can is made from solid gold!

Best check with HMRC

Chons da

Yeah, if you are VAT registered, you can get your VAT back on wooden nucs, bee-hive parts etc. (Anything that has VAT on it as an input tax). When you sell a nuc of bees or honey, there is no VAT for the customer to pay as bees and honey are zero rated.

(Just don't get me started on imports and the Comprehensive Customs Guarantee)!

 

[iann41]

Thanks everyone for confirming my suspicions.

Saw the info on the .Gov website but needed to be reassured I was reading it right.

 

[bontbee]

Just make sure you are registered with your local authority as a food producer. Simple phone call...

Do you need to do this if you sell honey from the end of your drive, or to friends?

No, you don't.

According to Swansea Env Health officers, you do!! Just shows how important it is to check with your own local authority - they all have their own interpretation of the legislation...

 

[Swarm]

According to Swansea Env Health officers, you do!! Just shows how important it is to check with your own local authority - they all have their own interpretation of the legislation...

I was answering E&MBees with regards selling from the gate and the answer is no you don't.
According to Neath/Port Talbot you don't need to register from gate or if only supplying a local shop

 

[For want of a better word]

I was answering E&MBees with regards selling from the gate and the answer is no you don't.
According to Neath/Port Talbot you don't need to register from gate or if only supplying a local shop

Confusing as Cornwall Council insist on all Food hygiene certs if selling honey to someone who is going to sell it to someone else ( ie corner shop)
Over the gate sales of a few jars of honey directly to the end user is going to be under the radar?

I did check on the star rating sticker .... in Cornwall... only applicable if selling food for immediate consumption

Chons da

 

[Beefriendly]

Star rating is a universal standard everywhere in England, Wales and NI. Scotland has their own equivalent system ALL primary food sellers must have one, not just sellers of fast foods or cafes, restaurants pubs etc.
If you are selling any items of food you prepare or make (such as honey) you cannot get a stall on any council run or reputable farmers market anywhere in the North of England without a star rating. Don't know about rest of UK but would expect it would be much the same.
Most of the markets I trade on won't accept anyone with under a 4 star rating. It's also mandatory (but not legally) to have your star rating on display when trading.
I think you are being very badly advised here, particularly if you haven't yet got a star rating and sell on farmers markets.
Interestingly for us, the 3 year visits have been replaced by a questionnaire as honey is seen as low risk business.

 

[For want of a better word]

Star rating is a universal standard everywhere in England, Wales and NI. Scotland has their own equivalent system ALL primary food sellers must have one, not just sellers of fast foods or cafes, restaurants pubs etc.
If you are selling any items of food you prepare or make (such as honey) you cannot get a stall on any council run or reputable farmers market anywhere in the North of England without a star rating. Don't know about rest of UK but would expect it would be much the same.
Most of the markets I trade on won't accept anyone with under a 4 star rating. It's also mandatory (but not legally) to have your star rating on display when trading.
I think you are being very badly advised here, particularly if you haven't yet got a star rating and sell on farmers markets.
Interestingly for us, the 3 year visits have been replaced by a questionnaire as honey is seen as low risk business.

The star rating is only require for sellers of food for immediate consumption Beefieburghers crabbie sandwichies etc etc in Cornwall.
I checked!!!