Quantcast

royal jelly.........

Beekeeping Forum

Help Support Beekeeping Forum:

biglongdarren 

Drone Bee
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
7
Location
Mourne mountains
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
20+
i am going to a big bee meetin on tuesday nite and was going to ask this really silly question so maybe some of you's could answer me it here and avoid me any embarrashment...................if a drone larvae was giving royal jelly to eat would it make him the king?????bee-smillie
 

admin 

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
6,393
Reaction score
3
Location
Hampshire uk
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
6
No but it could make him the queen,I think its called heterogenesis.
I think under normal conditions the workers will eat any drone larvea that have been fed royal jelly.

Can anyone point to a paper that talks about this,I think I only read about it once a while back.
 

stilllearning 

House Bee
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Messages
101
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
none
would probably make him go roundtrees........crikey that sent chivers down me spine
 

biglongdarren 

Drone Bee
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
7
Location
Mourne mountains
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
20+
and then could he go on to lay eggs and so on??.....would this ever happen like in a hive???
 

admin 

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
6,393
Reaction score
3
Location
Hampshire uk
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
6
I should of read up before posting really as I may be talking b*ll*cks.

It could be laying workers that can make a queen if fed royal jelly.

Can the geneticist's on the forum help me out before I dig a hole even deeper please..
 

biglongdarren 

Drone Bee
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
7
Location
Mourne mountains
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
20+
you've dug a hole big enough to be fit to call yourself a chilean miner my friend.....
 

admin 

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
6,393
Reaction score
3
Location
Hampshire uk
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
6
parthenogenesis was the word I was looking for not heterogenesis.

Thelytoky:

Thelytoky comes from the Greek thely, meaning "female", and tok, meaning "birth". Thelytokous parthenogenesis is a type of parthenogenesis in which females are produced from unfertilized eggs. It is rare in the animal kingdom and has only been reported in about 1500 species.

It is more common in invertebrates, like arthropods, but can also occur in vertebrates, like some whiptail lizards. Thelytoky can occur by a number of different mechanisms each of which has a different impact on the level of homozygosity. It can be induced in Hymenoptera by the bacteria Wolbachia and Cardinium and has also been described in several groups of Hymenoptera, including Cynipidae, Tenthredinidae, Aphelinidae, Ichneumonidae, Apidae and Formicidae.

Hymenoptera (ants, bees and wasps) usually reproduce by arrhenotokous parthenogenesis. They have the haplodiploid sex-determination system, and usually unfertilized eggs develop into haploid males, and fertilized eggs develop into diploid females. In thelytoky, however, female workers or queens are produced by laying worker bees when diploidy is restored in their eggs by the fusion of two meiotic products.

These laying workers are therefore producing unfertilized diploid eggs (with the full complement of 32 chromosomes). It occurs in the Cape bee, Apis mellifera capensis, a strain of honey bee, and has been found in other strains at very low frequency. The diploid embryo that develops from the egg can develop into a worker bee or a queen bee depending on how it is fed.
 

Skyhook 

Queen Bee
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
3,054
Reaction score
0
Location
Dorset
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
5
parthenogenesis was the word I was looking for not heterogenesis.

Thelytoky:

Thelytoky comes from the Greek thely, meaning "female", and tok, meaning "birth". Thelytokous parthenogenesis is a type of parthenogenesis in which females are produced from unfertilized eggs. It is rare in the animal kingdom and has only been reported in about 1500 species.

It is more common in invertebrates, like arthropods, but can also occur in vertebrates, like some whiptail lizards. Thelytoky can occur by a number of different mechanisms each of which has a different impact on the level of homozygosity. It can be induced in Hymenoptera by the bacteria Wolbachia and Cardinium and has also been described in several groups of Hymenoptera, including Cynipidae, Tenthredinidae, Aphelinidae, Ichneumonidae, Apidae and Formicidae.

Hymenoptera (ants, bees and wasps) usually reproduce by arrhenotokous parthenogenesis. They have the haplodiploid sex-determination system, and usually unfertilized eggs develop into haploid males, and fertilized eggs develop into diploid females. In thelytoky, however, female workers or queens are produced by laying worker bees when diploidy is restored in their eggs by the fusion of two meiotic products.

These laying workers are therefore producing unfertilized diploid eggs (with the full complement of 32 chromosomes). It occurs in the Cape bee, Apis mellifera capensis, a strain of honey bee, and has been found in other strains at very low frequency. The diploid embryo that develops from the egg can develop into a worker bee or a queen bee depending on how it is fed.
I think that's no then. ;)
 

admin 

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
6,393
Reaction score
3
Location
Hampshire uk
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
6
:iagree::blush5:

I thought a nice long post above about Thelytoky would deflect some of the embarrassment..

Like you say the answer is no,I got it wrong,maybe I should of Googled it first and then I could of been an expert.

Admin slinks off to a far corner of the forum.
 

oliver90owner 

Queen Bee
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
15,628
Reaction score
27
Location
Lincolnshire
Hive Type
14x12
Feeding anything to a drone larva will not make it haploid, royal jelly or whatever it might be. Never in a month of Sundays. Haploid is haploid. Queens are female - they diploid. Most female bees (the workers) are stunted; only the queens are fed 'properly'. There may have been other ways to promote the queen, but when you think about it the larval development time is pretty well fixed for the female which leaves few options other than feeding the queen larva on a more 'concentrated' food. If you could slow down the larval development stage for the queen to say two weeks, the larva may not need such a special diet. But queenlessness is not a good attribute to a colony so the replacement is developed as quickly as ossible.

The option of a better diet, over the longer larval stage, was probably sorted out by basically Darwinian ideas millions of years before Darwin. Survival of the most suited method of queen production.

RAB
 

kazmcc 

Queen Bee
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
3,149
Reaction score
1
Location
Longsight, Manchester, UK
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
None, although I have my eye on one ( Just don't tell Dusty ;) )
:iagree::blush5:

I thought a nice long post above about Thelytoky would deflect some of the embarrassment..

Like you say the answer is no,I got it wrong,maybe I should of Googled it first and then I could of been an expert.

Admin slinks off to a far corner of the forum.
Hey, that's my embarrassment after a daft question corner! I suppose you can borrow it.....I don't forsee any daft questions for today, but if I need it you'll have to budge over
 

Latest posts

Top