Removing Entrance Block (Entrance Reducer) from the hive

[Gilberdyke John]

It’s a beekeeper thing to endlessly fiddle with a hives front door

Couple of years ago one of my polyhive colonies reduced their own entrance with propolis.

 

[Garry R]

I am sure that wide entrances are not necessary. Feral colonies generally have small entrances. Certainly with open mesh floors ventilation is not an issue. I don't have top ventilation. I keep my entrance all year round at 250mm x 8mm so I don't need mouse guards in the winter and I think that an entrance that size is easier for the bees to defend against wasps in autumn. My hives are poly and with open mesh floors all year round. I guess it's what works for you but I like to keep it simple.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Also, from the research i've done on this, this seems a pretty common design of floor so it surely must work and not be too detrimental to the bees - or have I missed something?

OMF is fine and works well in the U.K. so do solid floors.
There should be NO ventilation at the top.

 

[JimBee463]

There should be NO ventilation at the top.

Now, that's confused me, as a beginner, as all the hives I've seen have vent holes in the roof (a hole/slit with mesh on the inside), surely the apertures in the crown board combined with those roof vents will provide top ventilation, and therefore ventilation (of sorts) through the hive from bottom to top(?)

 

[Boston Bees]

Now, that's confused me, as a beginner, as all the hives I've seen have vent holes in the roof (a hole/slit with mesh on the inside), surely the apertures in the crown board combined with those roof vents will provide top ventilation, and therefore ventilation (of sorts) through the hive from bottom to top(?)

Yep. It's a throwback to the olden days before, well, science

Though plenty of people still use this setup, including at least one large-scale YouTube-regular UK beefarmer! So who am I to comment.

 

[TomH]

Will bees fan through an OMF? Or do they just see it as dead space, beneath the comb?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Will bees fan through an OMF? Or do they just see it as dead space, beneath the comb?

Oh they fan alright. You can hear them on a flow.
They also pass collected nectar through if the entrance is congested

 

[Erichalfbee]

Now, that's confused me, as a beginner, as all the hives I've seen have vent holes in the roof (a hole/slit with mesh on the inside), surely the apertures in the crown board combined with those roof vents will provide top ventilation, and therefore ventilation (of sorts) through the hive from bottom to top(?)

They do provide top ventilation but imagine what happens. Bedroom windows open plus front door.
Crownboard hole should be closed unless there is a feeder on it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

top ventilation, and therefore ventilation (of sorts) through the hive from bottom to top(?)

Bees like hot humid conditions and by allowing hot humid air to escape from the top you are giving them extra work to maintain those.
Try an experiment.
Close the omf ( and crownboard holes)
Take the entrance block out.
Hold a bit of feather each side of the entrance. The bees ventilate the hive perfectly well. You’ll see the feather blown in one side and out the other.
I think it’s called laminar flow. The bees take cooler drier air from one side pass it round the hive and out the other.
It’s a neat trick I show all beginners I teach

 

[Erichalfbee]

@JimBee463
Plenty of threads on this subject.
You could start here
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/oh-no-not-matchsticks-again.49372/

 

[JimBee463]

They do provide top ventilation but imagine what happens. Bedroom windows open plus front door.
Crownboard hole should be closed unless there is a feeder on it.

Bees like hot humid conditions and by allowing hot humid air to escape from the top you are giving them extra work to maintain those.
Try an experiment.
Close the omf ( and crownboard holes)
Take the entrance block out.
Hold a bit of feather each side of the entrance. The bees ventilate the hive perfectly well. You’ll see the feather blown in one side and out the other.
I think it’s called laminar flow. The bees take cooler drier air from one side pass it round the hive and out the other.
It’s a neat trick I show all beginners I teach

Yep, I understand it now (which explains why the apertures on the crown boards of the hives we looked at on my beginner course this weekend were all covered up with a small, loose, block of wood)

 

[Finman]

[/QUOTE]

Now, that's confused me, as a beginner, as all the hives I've seen have vent holes in the roof (a hole/slit with mesh on the inside), surely the apertures in the crown board combined with those roof vents will provide top ventilation, and therefore ventilation (of sorts) through the hive from bottom to top(?)

I have had 60 years hives.
I have no vent holes in the roof. Moisture moves in my top stucture through the upper cover to the loft. Loft must be ventilated, because otherwise moisture driples back into top insulation.

I have solid floor 20 mm high and in the brood boxes I have 2 flying holes in the front wall (15 mm).

In August main entrance is 20 cm x 1 cm, when the yield is over.

When I compared to human house, I meant what if you take the frood away from your house like in the a jungle house

 

[Finman]

Ah right. But, @Finman surely the vent holes at the top of the hive are just as important as the underfloor entrance

No. Not a single at the top.

 

[user 20297]

I have had 60 years hives.
I have no vent holes in the roof. Moisture moves in my top stucture through the upper cover to the loft. Loft must be ventilated, because otherwise moisture driples back into top insulation.

I have solid floor 20 mm high and in the brood boxes I have 2 flying holes in the front wall (15 mm).

In August main entrance is 20 cm x 1 cm, when the yield is over.

When I compared to human house, I meant what if you take the frood away from your house like in the a jungle house
[/QUOTE]

Which part is the "loft"? That sounds like inside the roof.
Could you use solid insulation or put a sheet of polythene above the top cover to keep out the moisture from the cold space?
What size entrance do you use during the flow?
Is it just solid floor with no mesh?
I am interested because even though most UK beekeepers say they don't use top ventilation, many people seem to keep an open mesh floor all year round; that seems to much ventilation for most of the year.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have had 60 years hives.
I have no vent holes in the roof. Moisture moves in my top stucture through the upper cover to the loft. Loft must be ventilated, because otherwise moisture driples back into top insulation.

I thought you ran poly hives
Surely they don’t have holes in the roof.
I’ve run one wooden hive in a solid floor with top insulation and an underfloor entrance this year and they are bone dry

 

[Finman]

Which part is the "loft"? That sounds like inside the roof.
Could you use solid insulation or put a sheet of polythene above the top cover to keep out the moisture from the cold space?
What size entrance do you use during the flow?
Is it just solid floor with no

I mean loft the air space between rain cover and insulated top cover. Insulation is foam plastic matress. 5-7 cm thick.

The heat of the hive lifts moisture through the top cover . It is respirating structure. No polyethe sheets.

Enctrance is 20 mm high and box wide

 

[user 20297]

I mean loft the air space between rain cover and insulated top cover.

The heat of the hive lifts moisture through the top cover . It is respirating structure

Enctrance is 20 mm high and box wide

I think I see what you're saying. Air does need to get into that space to remove condensation. The UK idea is mainly to fill the whole roof with non-absorbent insulation; a chunk of PIR board. That way, no moisture gets in there in any case. I would say that you do have top-ventilation, but it is indirect and doesn't create a cold airflow. It is the same as we use in most traditional UK houses. But in new houses, like new hives, we use solid insulation and no ventilation where we do not have a cold space.

 

[Finman]

.

I use traditional covers because they work well. I can clean them with flame. All material are recycled and self made.

Solid floors work well and I have no need to use "modern mesh floors". I do my floors too.

I bought 2 mesh floors with first polystyrene boxes 35 years ago. Someone say that they are modern.

It is funny, that you buy a mesh floor, and suddenly you are a modern beekeeper at the age of 75.
.

 

[Erichalfbee]

suddenly you are a modern beekeeper at the age of 75.
.

It’s nice to remember when you were though, eh?

 

[Martimart]

Now, that's confused me, as a beginner, as all the hives I've seen have vent holes in the roof (a hole/slit with mesh on the inside), surely the apertures in the crown board combined with those roof vents will provide top ventilation, and therefore ventilation (of sorts) through the hive from bottom to top(?)

Just don't run out to the shop and buy a box of matches, some contributors on here could instantaneously combust.