Removal of a super frame from brood box

[Finman]

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I put a medium foundation into a normal frames. So bees use 1/3 frame for drones. To put super frame into the brood box is not celever because it often attach to lower frame.

It is easy to cut piece of comb from normal frame. Bees make drone combs there.

Yes, forget the super frame in drood box. There are better ways.

.AND STOP DOING EVOLUTION. IT IS GOD'S JOB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just to clarify my post from last night when I got in after the football and some lager based drinks...

I understand the drone sacrifice for varroa checking but don't see the need to leave it in all year.

So is just moving it upstairs into the super the easiest way to allow the brood to hatch (is that the right word?) and not get any more brood in there? Will everything be OK with the existing brood in the frame and should I then, when it is hatched, remove the frame and replace with foundation in the super?

Short answer:
Yes - cut the drone brood away and put shallow frame (some people get antsy if you call it a super frame ) up in super for worker brood to emerge.

As for replacing that frame with clean foundation - Unless it is a manky horrible bit of comb there's no problem in leaving it in and letting the bees fil it with honey (that's what I've done

Right - now we can go back to the playground and continue the big argument

 

[Davelin]

Just to clarify my post from last night when So is just moving it upstairs into the super the easiest way to allow the brood to hatch (is that the right word?) and not get any more brood in there? Will everything be OK with the existing brood in the frame and should I then, when it is hatched, remove the frame and replace with foundation in the super?

As long as you already have a super on with enough bees in it to keep the brood warm it willl be fine, and as already staed the bees will clean the comb out and use it for honey so you can leave the frame in the super.

By the way, you will find that they will decide how many workers and how many drones they want regardless of anything you do.

You also notice that an innocent post asking for advice can lead to frenetic arguments.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

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.AND STOP DOING EVOLUTION. IT IS GOD'S JOB

Well said Finman

 

[MandF]

Guys. You do not understand about evolution nothing

Varroa evolution is so that it is pest of Apis cerana. In that host it is harmless because it lives only in drone brood.

It is actually a parasite - and they do not want to kill their hosts. Varroa destructor doesnt belong on our honeybees, it kills them.

But anyhow, the theory of evolution, NATURAL selection. Lets pretend for a second that we didnt drone sacrifice, but for some reason any varroa which entered the european honeybee drone cell died.

What would happen with varroa in europe? Would it die out?

HOW does varroa choose to enter drone brood? WHY does some varroa go into worker brood? It doesnt think, "oh well I have been on this nurse bee for a week now, no sign of any drone brood, what the heck lets jump into this worker brood - I know it has a shorter brood cycle but beggars cant be choosers"? No, there is a natural instinct for a varroa to enter a cell.

If there is a genetic difference which determines that choice (just like a genetic difference which meant a small proportion of varroa were resistant to pyrethroids), then by killing varroa in drone brood ONLY, we are breeding varroa which prefer worker brood. If we all do that, then drone sacrifice becomes useless as a control method for varroa (just like pyrethroids are now).

Unless you, or anyone else KNOWS there is no genetic reason why varroa prefer (or identify) drone brood, then wholescale drone sacrifice COULD breed varroa which prefer worker brood.

In other words, for drone sacrifice to be effective we WANT varroa which prefer drone brood. If we kill all those off, it wont be effective any more.

Also, should be as a matter of course, be killing all (most of) our drones all through the season?!

 

[MandF]

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Hives rear drones only couple of months. Story is not endless.

Maybe YOUR hives!

 

[MandF]

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I put a medium foundation into a normal frames. So bees use 1/3 frame for drones. To put super frame into the brood box is not celever because it often attach to lower frame.

It is easy to cut piece of comb from normal frame. Bees make drone combs there.

Yes, forget the super frame in drood box. There are better ways.

.AND STOP DOING EVOLUTION. IT IS GOD'S JOB

It is a bit late for that, the OP has a hive which has a super frame in the brood box already.

And if were are to stop doing evolution - perhaps you should tell that to all the queen breeders!!

Brother Adam maybe got permission from God so we will let him off.

 

[MandF]

You also notice that an innocent post asking for advice can lead to frenetic arguments.

Yup. One person saying they could leave the frame in until august, I suggested that 2 cycles was enough, then it gets hijacked.

 

[kingsuss]

Hello Everyone.
Can you Help
I have a hive with 5 Supers in the brood box with built on comb, I intended to remove them and put them in another brood box with the Queen excluder between. I am a new keeper and would sacrifice the drone brood, but will it be all Drone brood in the built on portion.

If there are 5 combs built on Supers it seems a mistake on the bees part to produce so many Drones. I realise the top part of the super will be worker brood. All you have said above seems sense to me, but is my problem different ?

One more question why is all the built on comb Drone comb. If a top bar hive is all built on. Not an argument just a simple question! .

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hello Everyone.
Can you Help
but will it be all Drone brood in the built on portion.

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Is it all drone?
Have a look and come back to tell us.
If it isn't then I would leave it alone till next year then do a Bailey change in the spring.
If your colony is strong you could put a foundation frame in the middle of the brood nest and feed. They will draw it out and the queen will lay it up very quickly. Check in a week and maybe add another one. You might get four frames done; not a job for a beginner though.

 

[pargyle]

Hello Everyone.
Can you Help
I have a hive with 5 Supers in the brood box with built on comb, I intended to remove them and put them in another brood box with the Queen excluder between. I am a new keeper and would sacrifice the drone brood, but will it be all Drone brood in the built on portion.

If there are 5 combs built on Supers it seems a mistake on the bees part to produce so many Drones. I realise the top part of the super will be worker brood. All you have said above seems sense to me, but is my problem different ?

One more question why is all the built on comb Drone comb. If a top bar hive is all built on. Not an argument just a simple question! .

First question ... why would you have five super frames in the brood box ? Have you been aware that they were in there if so, it's not a good idea.

I think you will find that not all of the built on comb is drone brood .. because of a design error my Long Deep Hive has a bit of space below the 14 x 12 frames and the bees build free comb on the bottom of the frames to fill this additional space ... they seem to keep the drone comb to one or two frames and the rest they either fill with stores or occasionally they put worker brood in it.

So .. if there is drone comb you have an ideal opportunity to uncap it and check the contents for varroa - a very accurate assessment of the varroa load in the hive. Even if you have a mix or worker and drone brood you can just uncap the areas of drone brood using an unacapping fork and hook out the drone brood. If it's all on the free comb on the bottom of the frames then it's a no brainer to just cut it off and do as you say you will.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Please warn when you bump threads 2 years old. I can see no serios problem with keeping the frames for now; they will raise whatever drones they want anyway. Otherwise I like Erica's idea of rotating them out ( they will empty of brood) but not with the beginners beware warning; I got four beautiful frames exactly that way my first autumn.

 

[pargyle]

Please warn when you bump threads 2 years old. I can see no serios problem with keeping the frames for now; they will raise whatever drones they want anyway. Otherwise I like Erica's idea of rotating them out ( they will empty of brood) but not with the beginners beware warning; I got four beautiful frames exactly that way my first autumn.

Perhaps a warning would have helped but he's a new poster and had at least gone to the trouble of a search for a thread which bore some relevance to his post ... pity a few more don't bother to search the archives.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Yes to be clear it was a request not a complaint and thanks for searching.