regulations on food safe equipment

[Poly Hive]

NonStandard why would any honey producer need a hygiene cert?

Frankly unless my understanding is totally wrong and I am happy to admit it, no cert is needed.

PH

 

[BBG]

My better half has taught Basic Food Hygiene in her past and I can assure you that the level 1 is a 'basic' certificate, Yes it is available online but it is not necessarily the best way to get it unless you already have an understanding of food hygiene.

My LA are trying to organise someone to come in and put any interested members through the level 1. One personal thought would be for LA's to get one person qualified to a high enough level get everyone else through their level 1

It would be reassuring to see all this effort working - at the simplest most basic level a look around at hotels, restaurants and pubs will reveal the 'chef', they wish, are often dressed in a DPM of their own making from what has spilled on them etc.

The Mayonnaise/Tartare sauce has been waiting around in small bowls in a warm kitchen for hours, long enough to form a thick discoloured crust and so it goes on.

Of course they're not all as bad but we NEVER eat out now.

At least with home prepared goods there is most likely to be a greater care taken in production.

Safe processes are very simple and should be tackled at school but it's never too late.

 

[nonstandard]

NonStandard why would any honey producer need a hygiene cert?

Frankly unless my understanding is totally wrong and I am happy to admit it, no cert is needed.

PH

PH you are right it would appear that it is not legally required but I suspect that it would help in proving 'due diligence', one of our LA members had a visit from the local EH officer after selling honey at a show and their certificate went a long way towards placating the inspector.

I found this on the FSA website

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/publication/hygieneguidebooklet0310.pdf

The key points I have seen are;

How do I put in place food safety management procedures?
Some businesses will already have suitable procedures in
place, so they can continue to use those. If you do not have
procedures in place, you can develop your own procedures
based on the principles of HACCP

Do all catering businesses and shops selling food need
to put in place these procedures?
Almost all will need to put in place these procedures, but it
may not be necessary in some businesses with very simple
processes. In this case, businesses can comply with the legal
requirement by following good hygiene practice. They would
still need to comply with the other requirements described
in this booklet

Food businesses must make sure that any staff who handle
food are supervised and instructed and/or trained in food
hygiene in a way that is appropriate for the work they do.
The person or people responsible for developing and
maintaining the business’s food safety management
procedures, based on the principles of HACCP (see Food
safety management procedures on page 3) must have
received adequate training to enable them to do this.

There is no legal requirement to attend a formal training
course or get a qualification, although many businesses may
want their staff to do so. The necessary skills could also be
obtained in other ways, such as through on-the-job training,
self-study or relevant prior experience

 

[Rosti]

1. The Mayonnaise/Tartare sauce has been waiting around in small bowls in a warm kitchen for hours, long enough to form a thick discoloured crust and so it goes on.
2. Safe processes are very simple and should be tackled at school but it's never too late.

1. We should be careful not to confuse a loss of quality with a loss of safety - the law is very clear and concise on the distinction.
Discoloured crusts are never palletable but in these instances are not unsafe either. Mayo has a low water content such that micro growth is not supported and tartare sauce has a sufficiently low pH to also significantly supress micro growth. Exactly the combination of attributes shown by honey that make it such a stable foodstuff (along with honey's unique anti-microbial property in addition). Not a reason to not control a honey extraction and bottling process, but every reason to understand your product, understand your process and recognise what the real threats are.

... but part used / contaminated bowls would be another matter!

2. Safe processes are often simple, but only to those who have taken the trouble to ensure they understand them. There is never a 'one size fits all' to HACCP or the threats that a process must control or avoid.

KISS (keep it simple stupid) is a very good idea but if that leads to LOVE (leave out virtually everything) then when it comes to food safety within a process you are likely to be vulnerable.

 

[tonybloke]

another good post, Rosti !! ( anyone would think you work in the food process industry, LOL)

 

[Moggs]

Both I and the beekeeper's apprentice (!) have taken an on-line Level '2' food hygiene certificate (mine in 'manufacturing' and the other in 'retail'). The level 2 goes far beyond the scope of the level 1 (Basic) and while most of the content is 'common sense' there is much more that would be useful in any foodstuff preparation environment.

Most people would be able to recognise hazardous situations and would be aware of the dangers of contamination but I particularly found the 'system' and theory to be of benefit (Rosti has mentioned CCP's in the HACCP system). These particular considerations provide a high degree of comfort in the knowledge that a comprehensive risk assessment process has been documented and it is this approach that Food Safety Officers are looking for.

On reflection, I would think more favourably of a supplier knowing that honey jars had been properly sterilised prior to bottling, than one who may have been bottling up without adequate care in a grotty back shed, for example.

While it is fairly obvious that we as honey suppliers are not so concerned about such dangers of cross contamination from cooked and raw meats (as an example) I think that there is much to be said for being able to demonstrate a good working knowledge of food safety legislation and the means for compliance.

 

[nonstandard]

As Moggs has mentioned garden sheds, does anyone with experience think that it may be acceptable to use a plastic garden shed for an extracting and bottling facility assuming of course that electrickery and hot and cold water are installed. i.e. could one pass muster with the EH inspector?

It's a purely hypothetical question, I've seen reasonably good quality plastic sheds for sale and they were also mentioned in this other thread and I started wondering.
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9090

 

[Moggs]

Hi NonStandard

The 'room', 'housing' or 'shed' would be suitable if it does not pre-dispose to any danger of contamination (e.g. built from hazardous material, ridden with pests, extremes of damp, generally falling to bits, etc) and can be kept clean (ideally with cleaning equipment in-situ).

Cleanliness and prevention of contamination/ infection/ spoilage are the key issues.

It would also be wise to protect the product from contamination with hair, bits of jewellery, cigarette ash, dirty fingernails, etc. and accordingly, personal hygiene and protective clothing are key considerations too.

Food Safety Law applies to honey production just as rigorously as any other foodstuff - imagine the investigation that would follow an instance of somebody ingesting a fragmant of broken glass for example.

From a personal view, anybody who bottles up honey with any lesser consideration is quite frankly neglecting a basic duty of care to the consumer. While the product may be relatively inherently safe due to its bactericidal properties, scrupulous cleanliness and protection of the product from the moment of harvesting should surely be the norm.

As if we would do anything else....

 

[BBG]

another good post, Rosti !! ( anyone would think you work in the food process industry, LOL)

Let's be glad he doesn't! After all in keeping with many bereft of even basic knowledge in that industry he shows a pathetic, limited understanding of food and its deterioration.

He also shows why EH officers and regulations will extend invasive tentacles to the kitchens of the many, unlike him, who do understand the basics. This, will then lay onerous conditions and associated expense on the majority.

A quote from an inspection by an EH officer on an inspection report:

"Temperature Control

3.
Once opened foods such as Colmans Whole Grain Mustard and Tartar Sauce require to be
stored as per the manufacturers instructions. i.e. once opened keep refrigerated. (Article
5(2)(b))"

This refers to this excerpt:

Regulation (EC) No 852/2004, Article 5.

1.

Food business operators shall put in place, implement and maintain a permanent
procedure or procedures based on the HACCP principles.

2.

The HACCP principles referred to in paragraph 1 consist of the following:

(a) Identifying any hazards that must be prevented, eliminated or reduced to acceptable
levels;

(b) Identifying the critical control points at the step or steps at which control is essential
to prevent or eliminate a hazard or reduce it to acceptable levels;

(c) Establishing critical limits at critical control points which separate acceptability from
unacceptability for the prevention, elimination or reduction of identified hazards.

So no, Rosti is pontificating while labouring under a dangerous misapprehension which has been covered by:

Environmental Health officers in their reports

The Food Safety Management System Regulations (your chance as an untrusted member of the food industry to show the EH officer you have learned a little of the basics)

AND at the most obvious and prayed for (by EH officers) basic - the manufacturers guidance on their label (remember, there's another regulation you mustn't ignore)

Refrigerate after opening - now that's KISS!

Let us not forget what is in mayonnaise and Tartare sauce - egg yolks - Edwina C! - if this isn't so, follow the instructions (RTFM)

"Microbiological - involving harmfu bacteria e.g., when certain foods are kept out of the fridge too long and bacteria grow in them"

Rosti waxes lyrical about honey's anti-microbial properties yet NEVER feed it to infants as it is sometimes carries botulism spores (microbial) that can and do cause infant deaths. 'Don't dip the dummy' on the label???

Honey's "unique anti-microbial properties" is misleading as is the misconception that crusty mayonnaise and tartare sauce are safe even if looking unpalletable.

Do a search on 'food posioning tartare sauce' - here's one:

http://tinyurl.com/4s9uapa

 

[Headnavigator]

Worth remembering too that individual EH Officers may have a bee in their own particular bonnet, and be known to always look for one thing above all else. It can be useful to talk to other beeks in your locality to find out what it is. (Procedure for sterilising jars, I believe, in this area!)

 

[Rosti]

BBG, not sure of your background, but being someone of mature disposition I am comfortably controlling my urge to post my qualifications, publication list and food industry resume. I stand by my observations and the generalised points on the difference between safety and quality in a honey context. This is after all a Beekeeping Forum not a meeting of the Institute of Food Science & Technology. My post was intended to be of general assistance to forum users and I felt that your analogies and comparisons were inappropriate. If you found my comments uncomfortable, sobeit.

I will pick-up on one misrepresentation you make however, more to allay fears in others. Do not confuse vegetative microbial cell growth / lysis in honey with spore survival.

Neonate Botulism is a very serious threat and can be fatal. For a child under twelve months of age, there is a risk of botulism from eating honey and it should be avoided. Clostridium botulinum is a soil borne, spore forming organsim, that is not on its own a problem, but it is regrettably the producer of one of the strongest and most heat stable neuro toxins known to man. The spores are likely principally picked up with pollen but the cross contamination vectors will be wider than this. The spore remains dormant in the honey and but can grow in the young gut because of its specific germination criteria and environmental tollerance. The exact reasons for neonate susceptability are not well defined. Some very young infants can have a poorly developed digestive tract and / or competitive gut flora so a very very low infective dose of botch spores (possibly single numbers) can germinate and grow in the infant gut, the toxin is a metabolic bi-product. It is a finite combination of factors that can cause this illness in the very young, which has no bearing on the general microbiological stability of honey or indeed the risk of botulism from honey in those consumers with a fully developed gut flora. If you are wondering BBG, no I didn't need to Google it, I Rosti'd it.

Good hygienic practice when we extract and bottle our honey is of course important but of equal importance (given honey's natural anti-microbial properties) is control of physical contamination risks like always rinsing and inverting glass jars before use (re-air-dry them of course otherwise you'll get a localised increase in water activity with the risk of bug growth - but you knew that right!). HACCP does demand physical, chemical and biological risk assessment.

If you'd like the last word be my guest, I won't post again concerning your comments, the forum deserves better.

 

[BobH1]

Hazards and Critical Control Points

I came accross this document, which gives an example of a HCCP. Its mostly common sense, but then I often find it quite useful to write down the common sense items so that I don't forget them.

What I have forgotten is where and how I obtained the document and indeed who R Robinson is. He does say in his footnote that we can use it for our own use however!