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MuswellMetro 

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Hi All,

I have just bought a varroa floor from here

http://tinyurl.com/33khsrx

I have to recommend it as it is a quality hand made product, it also has a kewl entrance design.

Yours Roy
yes like the Kewl entrance

But there is limited or nearly no floor bee space with this design when used with a national brood(14x12) above the varroa floor, ( i also bought one)

if the design is the same on a langstroth TBS hive, the frames must almost touch the floor)

so you rely of the 9mm bottom bees space of the brood box...result you crush bees on the floor when you place a frame into the brood box in a hive full of bees..i crushed the queen second use. smoke pushed her to the floor and all i did was move along a frames...queen came up damaged legs ,i had rolled her sideways

i had to add a 21mm eke to get back that floor bee space to get it to the same space as a standard hive floor. also the varroa board warped as well in the rain (non exterior ply)
 
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admin 

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I see what you mean:
It looks like its made by a non beekeeper who needs to read up on bee-space
 

GingerNut 

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In one of his email he says he keeps bees.

I don't have this problem as I have a 60mm gap at the bottom of all my frames so they can build drone brood.

So it's perfect for me :)

Yours Roy
 

MuswellMetro 

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I see what you mean:
It looks like its made by a non beekeeper who needs to read up on bee-space
It is very well made, and he has lots of ++ reviews from beekeepers but with the limit to zero bee space above the floor, it is a disaster waiting to happen

when i complained, he just said no one else had problems and that if iawas concerned just add a 20mm eke

Does anyone else of this forum just rely on the brood bottom bee space? ie a zero space abovev the floor rather than 21mm block space
 
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Rosti 

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22mm built in to all my OMF floors Muswell and I am on bottom space within other hive parts. Wld not consider having a floor without that 'buffer'

3 trad entrances and 2 with Kewl arrangement. On reflection I like the Kewl entrance alot but had to add a mod to allow restriction when required.
 
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Just out of interest what is a Kewl entrance?
 

Rosti 

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Mine are a slight variant on the Edinburgh design in that there is a 45' cut block giving an entrance that reduces to 8mm but ends up effectively as a vertical entrance. First floors I got and didn't realise what they were at the time!
 

MuswellMetro 

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In one of his email he says he keeps bees.

I don't have this problem as I have a 60mm gap at the bottom of all my frames so they can build drone brood.

So it's perfect for me :)

Yours Roy
i also modified the rake of the flight board, as on mine you could not use a standard thornes block, i have replace the ply floor with a thin aliminium tray as the ply warped and you knocked of all the bee/varroa crap as you extracted the floor, therefore no varroa count possible
 

oliver90owner 

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7 pieces of 20mm PSE (4 (3 + the back) for the base and 3 for over the mesh). The three are 22mm wide, same as normal wide openings (or could be whatever you want).

2 or 3 small section battens to take the varroa catcher which is a piece of ply or could be other materials. Might put a batten on the drawer to make things tidy, otherwise use a screw.

A few screws and the mesh floor and then screw it all together. I drill pilot holes to prevent splitting the wood, but don't botther to countersink with softwood.

Easier to make ten at a time, but never seem to do that!

Regards, RAB
 

Adam 

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when i complained, he just said no one else had problems and that if iawas concerned just add a 20mm eke
We had a club member who bought a hive from a newer supplier and it didn't have bee space around a frame. Indeed she had to force the frames in. the response was "your frames must be wrong". In the end, she had to claim against her credit card company to get them to refund.

If I bought something without a bee space, I'd return it as "unfit for purpose". Their is various bits of legislation to protect you, the trade descriptions act for one.
Adam
 

bioman 

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Hi,

First of all, as this is my first post, please excuse the length of it, but I felt that I just had to clear up a few points raised in this thread. Your forebearance will be much appreciated!

As I saw that one of my varroa floors was the subject of a gracious recommendation by a Forum member this morning and started a discussion on its merits I thought I would take the opportunity to reply.

As I usually ask my customers if they have any comments which may lead to my making a better product I want to take advantage of this chance to do the same on here as a new member.

John C.'s (Muswell Metro) comments are well-meant. After he had bought his second floor from me this year, I have increased the space between the top of the mesh to the bottom of the brood frames. The original design was using the nominal "bee-space " of c.6mm and I usually added a couple of mm to make sure. General thinking was that if extra space was given, bees would be encouraged to form extra comb. Of course, nowadays many beeks practise drone management and therefore extra comb is desirable. I now add an extra couple of mm to the space and it now is c.6mm deeper. So, effectively, bees now have c.12mm available for getting rid of detritus. My advice given to John at the time still stands - if you want to practise drone management, use a spacer to lift the brood chamber above the floor to enable drone comb to be drawn. The space at the rear of the floor for the insert is a comfortable 5mm above the thickness of the plywood to allow for easier withdrawal of detritus/varroa mites.
My Smith and Langstroth-design floors have a much deeper space.

When I started production of the floors, I did not include an insert as it would only be used for monitoring purposes and therefore no need to use one on a permanent basis. My bees are kept in the Scottish Highlands and the only time the floors are used are when monitoring and in February/March when perhaps early brood need a bit of protection. I haven't lost a colony over the years that I have used mesh floors. With that in mind, the insert floor is supplied to be used on a very temporary basis.

I'm attaching a couple of photos to help illustrate the points I've made.

Once again, apologies for the length of reply. Hopefully, future posts will not be as time-consuming.
 

MuswellMetro 

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Hi,


John C.'s (Muswell Metro) comments are well-meant. After he had bought his second floor from me this year, I have increased the space between the top of the mesh to the bottom of the brood frames. The original design was using the nominal "bee-space " of c.6mm and I usually added a couple of mm to make sure. General thinking was that if extra space was given, bees would be encouraged to form extra comb. Of course, nowadays many beeks practise drone management and therefore extra comb is desirable. I now add an extra couple of mm to the space and it now is c.6mm deeper. So, effectively, bees now have c.12mm available for getting rid of detritus. My advice given to John at the time still stands - if you want to practise drone management, use a spacer to lift the brood chamber above the floor to enable drone comb to be drawn. The space at the rear of the floor for the insert is a comfortable 5mm above the thickness of the plywood to allow for easier withdrawal of detritus/varroa mites.
My Smith and Langstroth-design floors have a much deeper space.

When I started production of the floors, I did not include an insert as it would only be used for monitoring purposes and therefore no need to use one on a permanent basis. My bees are kept in the Scottish Highlands and the only time the floors are used are when monitoring and in February/March when perhaps early brood need a bit of protection. I haven't lost a colony over the years that I have used mesh floors. With that in mind, the insert floor is supplied to be used on a very temporary basis.

I'm attaching a couple of photos to help illustrate the points I've made.

Once again, apologies for the length of reply. Hopefully, future posts will not be as time-consuming.

Hi welcome

First, i am not John C, so i am not the only one to discover the floor is not to normal BS National floor dimension which specify 7/8 of an inch (21mm)

i have worked with national hive since the early 1960 as a boy, and even when i worked at rothampsted in the early 1970s as a student ,all solid floors had either a 18mm riser or more normal 21mm riser which with a national bottom bee space box rebate of 7mm-9mm give between 25mm to 30mm under frames to foor

all current floors other than yours i have seen advertised have 21mm risers to take a standard 20mm block not the notional 4mm as on the floor i purchased from you

4mm yes because i do have a 6mm early floor but only 4mm of that is usable as the mesh extends 2mm up ( with thickness and crinkles)

i am only quoting from my experiance with your floor,

so with a thornes 14x12 brood that has 7mm bees space that's 13mm..80,000 bees in a 14x12 do not fit in 370x424x13mm and i am not sayig they should but i need much more space to manipluate a frame..and with just one shok frame into the bottom, then two frames moved forward to inspect the third frame i rolled the queen on the bottom (ie not as i pull it up)

i also dont understand your drone comment, 25mmto 30m on a standard floor has been the norm since the National hive was conceved. copies of the original specications and depth are on the scottishbeekepers association webb site. to induce drone comb you need 50mm plus that most do by inserting a smaller frame or drone mixed 5.4mm/drone frame

sorry but i stil would not recomend your very well made floor until the riser is 20/ 21mm and it accepts a standard 21mm block.and the varroa floor is moved lower as it is closer to the mesh screen than most OMFs , and i have had detrius biuld up bridging the mesh if i leave in in overwinter
 
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bioman 

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Hi,
Thanks for your welcome. First of all, apologies for thinking you were the one and only person to make the definitive comment about the size of the rear space for extracting the insert tray!

i also dont understand your drone comment, 25mmto 30m on a standard floor has been the norm since the National hive was conceved. copies of the original specications and depth are on the scottishbeekepers association webb site. to induce drone comb you need 50mm plus
I think you'll find that I did not specify the size of a "spacer to be used to lift the brood chamber above the floor to enable drone comb to be drawn". As I do not practise this technique myself, I leave it to the beekeeper to use whatever size he thinks fit. Good point ,however, about the distance from the mesh to the top of the sides and I may very well include that in future batch modifications.

Thanks for your input.
 

MuswellMetro 

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Hi,
Thanks for your welcome. First of all, apologies for thinking you were the one and only person to make the definitive comment about the size of the rear space for extracting the insert tray!



I think you'll find that I did not specify the size of a "spacer to be used to lift the brood chamber above the floor to enable drone comb to be drawn". As I do not practise this technique myself, I leave it to the beekeeper to use whatever size he thinks fit. Good point ,however, about the distance from the mesh to the top of the sides and I may very well include that in future batch modifications.

Thanks for your input.
sorry but

British Standards Institution (British Standard 1300:
1960)MAFFA leaflet 367, The British National Hive,
Crown Copyright 1961, Reviewed 1970)

says 7/8 of an inch is the standard riser above floor, i was also commnet on the person who recomneded to drone use riser.

if you are specifying a product as National" then if it differes from that standard, you should have mention it...other wise you contravene trading standrds law .. something like "with less bee space to stop drone brood forming". i dont expect the frames floor space to reduce from 1and3/8" under the BS standard to 11mm....7mm+4mm

I purchasse a floor that i asume would be compatable to BS Nastional standrds , the one you sold me was not by a lon.g way as that stansdrard speficies 7/8" riser above floor level, and your modiication is still not near the BS1300/160 British standard.....thats what the BS in the name BS National .....how do i know, As general bottle washer and dogs body , i typed up the 1970 revision to the 1960 standard at rothampsted in 1970. for the proof readers...(so it was issued in 1970 and did not need to be revised to metric speicifaction in 1971)
 
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Hivemaker. 

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Don't think there is any such thing as a BS, for any of the various varroa floors,
Some are just three bits of wood nailed to a flat piece of mesh.....where does BS come into it, where has this man stated this is a BS national varroa floor.
 

admin 

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Maybe its an adaptation of a Smith or Langstroth floor to National size ?

I am thinking TBS versus BBS..
 

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