Re-queening nasty-------- hive

[Murox]

Well noted....had not seen one of those. I bought last week one of these but its not here yet.....any road up I armoured her with what I have and am loath to bother them yet again. Will add the new one on Monday or Tuesday when in again.

Thats fine, same thing. Be sure to press it well into the wax and probably use an elastic band or two as well.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Hi all

I am going in to the nasty hive again today.

As a recap, I have (in order up):
Floor
BB with main original nasty colony*
Super
News paper(now after 4 days, presumably chewed)
QE
United NUC frames in BB including caged placid laying queen.

* remember i could not find the devil queen on second inspection after she flew away.

So before i start trying to find that queen again, can I observe QC activity in lower BB. If signs can I assume she has gone? Or must I still find her? If none then i am still left not knowing she is the there since the colony might be responding to the caged queen above?

If I must find her then i can try BFs shakeinboxwait24hours method after making a normal search again. My fear is this will cause the apiary to be a war zone again. But needs must.

One other option is that i could make sure that super does not have the queen, leave it on the new NUC BB and puy the new BB below and release the queen and reassemble. Move the lower BB which must have the queen. I could then close this up and take to another part of the garden overnight and then perform the queen search again tomorrow.

Finally, I could just take this BB out to somewhere remote in the car and try and find somewhere where i can house it and try and see if it sorts itself out. At some stage the queen or queenless situation will be clear.

Help appreciated as I must have a clear plan and act with clear purpose.



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[enrico]

There should be evidence of chewed paper on the floor by the entrance. Have a quick look. My fear is the gap between the brood boxes might stopped them uniting. What I would do then if they have combined, is..... Put your new queen and all the boxes with her on the old site and move the other boxes with possibly the old queen to a new site close by. All the flyers from the old hive will join the new lot. You can then move any frames worth moving across to the new queen making sure there is no queen in the frames. Eventually the old box can be cleared of everything but the old queen..... If she is there!
Sorry..... Just re read your post and see that is exactly what you have said......good plan.
E

 

[Murox]

Your good queen is still caged, for over 5 days - correct?
So any evidence of eggs anywhere, other than with her, will be either from your devil queen or possibly drone laying workers. Have a read up and look for some pics. of typical drone laying worker patterns etc - multiple eggs in one cell - eggs on sides of cell/unusual position in cell etc.
Don't make any assumptions.

 

[george]

If the old colony was as spiteful as you have said I would expect an improvement in behaviour because of your new caged queen , the only ‘however’ I would add to that is whether you now have two colonies in one hive with the super between brood boxes isolating them from each other .

Check the bees attitude towards the cage , are they smothering it or being aggressive towards it ? You can do this as you work your way down through the stack .

Check for new eggs in the original bb . If there are , a queen is there somewhere .
As Murox has written , assume nothing.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Thank you gentle advisors. A plan!

Onward onward, strode the sick husband, into the valley of dearth.

 

[citrus]

Thank you gentle advisors. A plan!

Onward onward, strode the sick husband, into the valley of dearth.

here is a beginner wishing you the very best !

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

As was feared the newspaper did not really work. There were two decent size tears andf bees were coming through but it was not much, maybe two beespaces for the merges to happen. I removed the top box and placed to on side.

I could not find a queen nor could I see eggs in the evil BB. I saw very young larvae but that would be from 5 days ago. There were numerous QCs, three already capped but very light brown and white grubs when I knocked them down. QCs were scattered on mid frames and on top, none of the typical type you see in swarms.

I took all the frames into another box checking for the queen as I went. And then when they were in there I checked again. I then decided to introduce the caged queen to the super and its bees. There was no balling or aggression. So I then hung it next to two of the remaining frames in the evil BB and watched. The cage was covered but not any more than the normal frame activity. Behaviour from the bees across and beside the cage seemed calm, like they knew there was a queen in there but if anything they seemed to want to feed her. Certainly not a mass move to cover it. I could be wrong but it seemed fine.

So I made an executive decision. I would then make a 2 brood box and hang the NUC frames (there were only 4 active really) amongst the other frames. I saw no nastiness (though note I am now being pinged by Mosquito Squadron and it is difficult ) so figured there must have been some unite that happens.

Amongst these and in the top BB I have left the caged queen. I removed the tape of the cage and have just left the fondant plug. Every QC I could see, I knocked down.

The problem is I still have no absolute evidence that the nasty queen has gone but the lack of eggs and QCs give a good indicator and then the non-balled queen "acceptance" seemed to be a good sign.

How did I do?

PS once I reassembled the hive, I was getting 10-20 bees on full veil ping 60 feet away so its still rough. With the bank holiday coming up, I think if the ambience is not better tomorrow or Friday I will need to, or have someone, cart it off. Its going gang busters, very strong, but right now its still unpleasant.

 

[birdsandbees]

having skimmed through this thread you've done alright!

I've just tackled my queen from hell! they were so incredibly vile last year I was actually scared of doing anything with them other than whacking on an additional Super when required, they actually got up to seven full supers which was great but even quickly adding one resulted in a covering of really aggressive bees and usually a couple of stings into the bargain.

as they have built up this Spring they are getting just as bad so productive or not she was going!

I managed to take the brood box to the other side of the Apiary and left their Super in it's place to bleed off the flyers which helped but every movement resulted in a rush of bees out to kill me!

I did find the cow bag eventually after reducing down to the last two frames when shaking them through an excluder one at a time.

looking forward to seeing if the new queen in a push in cage is okay and whether or not I'll have to wait 6-7 weeks for the change to take effect.

hope yours goes okay

 

[Murox]

So you have now united all bees, good queen still in cage but workers can now release her by eating through candy plug over the next few days. You took down all queen cells you found and could not find evil queen and found no sign of eggs anywhere . Sounds hopeful, there will of course still be some "evil" brood developing and it will take a little while for things to calm down. Did they all calm down over a few minutes after you united all of them ? I hope you have cracked it.

When I said calm down I mean did their 'chainsaw buzzing' diminish?

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

So you have now united all bees, good queen still in cage but workers can now release her by eating through candy plug over the next few days. You took down all queen cells you found and could not find evil queen and found no sign of eggs anywhere . Sounds hopeful, there will of course still be some "evil" brood developing and it will take a little while for things to calm down. Did they all calm down over a few minutes after you united all of them ? I hope you have cracked it.

When I said calm down I mean did their 'chainsaw buzzing' diminish?

I couldnt notice a distinct noise change. They were still pretty grim, particularly after I reassembled I had 10-20 still at me. However, what was noticeable was popping the in the apiary 2 hours later was that I only had 2 or 3 at me even close to the hive. Last week that would have been impossible after a full bore inspection. I then lost those 3 and went and stood close by looking over a wall for about 10 mins, and this time nothing at all. Again, last week they were round the other side of the house on the street like hunter-killers. They were even chasing cars...

Ive got a good feeling, you know one of those gut feelings.

Not there yet but you've been great Murox, as have others. Encouragement has been really important, thanks.

 

[jeff33]

Well done, looks like it may have work. Try not to disturb them for 5-6 days. The queen needs to get in laying motion again after being caged. Depending on how much store is in the super I would give a small 1to1 feed. Queens can be accepted better when there is a flow.

 

[enrico]

Jars of honey to all your neighbours I reckon. Well done
E

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Not out of the woods yet. Plenty of pinging from a decent quantity today. Just hope it will reduce over time.

Some exciting news developing though regarding out-apiary opportunity though, which has my stress levels reducing drastically....will report once confirmed.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Update: Did inspection of the nasty hive. 4th frame in and there she was, the painted lady - The requeening had worked.

Laying but not at a massive rate of knots. No swarm indications.

Slightly mixed feelings though; the inspection disruption gave rise to lots of pinging during and then following the close-up. I sustained 30 yard activity, following-and-pinging, aggravation from 3-5 buzz-saws. And within the hour if 10 feet away, it is unpleasant still...

Obviously only 3 weeks in to expected lineage 'rinse-out'. Have I succeeded in convincing myself nastiness was less than it was? Settled down with a Friday night decompression glass of white and in writing this note, I remain optimistic.

Have a good weekend all...

 

[For want of a better word]

Sorry can't resist it.....

Were them bees of yours Kew ing up to sting you!!!!

Chons da

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Sorry can't resist it.....

Were them bees of yours Kew ing up to sting you!!!!

Chons da

Indeed! And if they carry on I'll start Twickin 'em all off with a fly swat...

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[Murox]

Update: Did inspection of the nasty hive. 4th frame in and there she was, the painted lady - The requeening had worked.

Laying but not at a massive rate of knots. No swarm indications.

Slightly mixed feelings though; the inspection disruption gave rise to lots of pinging during and then following the close-up. I sustained 30 yard activity, following-and-pinging, aggravation from 3-5 buzz-saws. And within the hour if 10 feet away, it is unpleasant still...

Obviously only 3 weeks in to expected lineage 'rinse-out'. Have I succeeded in convincing myself nastiness was less than it was? Settled down with a Friday night decompression glass of white and in writing this note, I remain optimistic.

Have a good weekend all...

Following and pinging is annoying, but at least its not attack & sting. Pinging can be simply a "stay away warning". I cautiously share your optimism.

 

[Millet]

Update: Did inspection of the nasty hive. 4th frame in and there she was, the painted lady - The requeening had worked.

Laying but not at a massive rate of knots. No swarm indications.

Slightly mixed feelings though; the inspection disruption gave rise to lots of pinging during and then following the close-up. I sustained 30 yard activity, following-and-pinging, aggravation from 3-5 buzz-saws. And within the hour if 10 feet away, it is unpleasant still...

Obviously only 3 weeks in to expected lineage 'rinse-out'. Have I succeeded in convincing myself nastiness was less than it was? Settled down with a Friday night decompression glass of white and in writing this note, I remain optimistic.

Have a good weekend all...

I have made Nucs in the past by splitting a angry colony into three and adding a caged calm mated Queen to each Nuc..if i remember correctly it took around four to five weeks for the bad behavior to disappear..just be patient it will get better if the Queen you bought is a gentle type..

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

...and this morning 3 jars of honey delivered to 3 very gracious neighbours. Even got hugs. Its all been quiet and they have been using their gardens as usual.