Re-queen or what

[Queens59]

OK, several have said in reply to my previous posts about this hive that it needs re-queening, and how to, but due to house viewings have been unable to do so.

Today this (also in 'What did you do in the Apiary today?'...

OK - The hive from hell must die - or at least be re-queened...but I do wonder if they are beyond help.

As I walked towards the hive...they flew out in a massive cloud and surrounded me - before I had even touched the hive I received my first sting...and my suit took at least 40. I managed to straighten up the hive (where it was put together by my Oh badly last time they attacked hard). Tried light syrup and smoke and they just took no notice.

Dashed for the bushes and thought I was bee free - but in the house 2 appeared to carry on the fight. We live in a bungalow, and our bedroom window faces the hives and bees flew to the room as soon as I stepped in! By the time I had closed the window I had 5 followers and it took 20 minutes to clear the room...

Re-queen or what?

 

[madasafish]

Requeen . Move Boxes at night having stuffed up entrance, strapped up hive and replace with empty boxes on site so bleed off foragers.
Wait 2-3 days. Then search for queen in original boxes.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I don't know how long this has been going on for, but bad tempered colonies don't generally get any better.

"..but I do wonder if they are beyond help". Quite possibly.

 

[Illo]

Definitely off with her head. All bees can be defensive - particularly at this time of year - but this lot sound aggressive, and definitely need to be dealt with. They make my one, slightly grumpy black queen sound like a pussy cat!

The technique of getting rid of the foragers by putting the original colony elsewhere (a good distance away by the sound of things!) is a good one..

Do keep us posted...

 

[itma]

Requeen (at least).

But it is possible that this particular fury was prompted by robbing due to the boxes not being squared up.

I don't think syrup works well in a spray.
Plain water, and the nozzle set for a very fine mist, is a definite help, I find.

The suit will definitely need a wash ...



/// Some of mine may be very 'nervous', but those sound pure evil. Maybe Dusty could give some exorcism tips?

 

[Queens59]

Thanks all - I have tried water before which is why I tried syrup this time

Suit is already going around, but still to persuade my OH, who supports but is terrified of this hive, that we have to move it and make the whole garden our of bounds...Oh dear...

 

[Skyhook]

The alternative- drastic but effective, (which I've used once on what I refer to as a 'Hitchcock' hive- viz. The Birds), is a garden sprayer with water and fairy liquid.

Wait for the massed ranks on the front of the hive (if they're not there, give the hive a kick). Spray with detergent, almost instant death. Kick hive again and repeat, until the flyers are reduced by as much as you want before doing what you want- inspect, re-queen or combine.

Bearing in mind that nasty hives are the least likely to accept a queen, I would think carefully before putting £50-worth in there. If you have a banked old queen from an AS or the like, fine.

If you are going to re-queen, I would continue with the fairy liquid until there are only young nurse bees left.


.

 

[RoseCottage]

I would re-queen too so where what and how...

I have found a frame with eggs the most reliable mechanism for re-gaining control

Have a word with the local association and see if someone is willing to give a frame up near you.

The impact is not massive for the donor this time of year
For your colony the disruption is useful as about a month will pass before she's laying - prepping you with late season/early winter bees. Others die and the hive becomes less full.

You still need to scratch out new qc's and kill the queen of-course but the results should be beneficial

Good luck
Sam

 

[yeogi75]

check to see if there is eggs or grubs not just sealed brood, could be no queen and all have hatched and being defensive of hive, mine went defensive and found out there was no queen united and now all calm

 

[Queens59]

Can't even get down as far as BB! The queen keeps getting throught the QE so I removed it, but it means she could be in 1 BB or 3 supers...that is half the problem, they never let us in long enough to find and destroy her...

 

[itma]

The alternative- drastic but effective, (which I've used once on what I refer to as a 'Hitchcock' hive- viz. The Birds), is a garden sprayer with water and fairy liquid.

Wait for the massed ranks on the front of the hive (if they're not there, give the hive a kick). Spray with detergent, almost instant death. Kick hive again and repeat, until the flyers are reduced by as much as you want before doing what you want- inspect, re-queen or combine.

Bearing in mind that nasty hives are the least likely to accept a queen, I would think carefully before putting £50-worth in there. If you have a banked old queen from an AS or the like, fine.

If you are going to re-queen, I would continue with the fairy liquid until there are only young nurse bees left.


.

I've heard of using Fairy Liquid to euthanise bad bees, but have't done it myself.

I gather that the idea is that the detergent allows the water to properly "wet" the bees, covering their spiracles and in effect 'drowning' them.

But I don't know how much detergent is needed - do you want bubbles?
Or is it just a case of spraying dishwashing strength solution (a teaspoonful to a couple of litres of water)?
I'd hate to be experimenting when faced with a formation attack of kamikaze bees!

 

[Swarm]

Put a fly in the sink, in clean water. Now take a bar of soap and dunk below the surface and rub slightly, the fly will be dead almost instantly. You don't need suds.

 

[madasafish]

Soap and water = cheap insecticide with minimal residues. I use it on sprouts.

 

[Stiffy]

These nasty hives are not nice and really difficult to deal with. I don't put up with any signs of aggression now....just not worth it. Had a similar hive a couple of years ago that I couldn't get near, would follow for hundred of metres and would take days to forget. It sounds like you need a quicker solution but I waited until early spring when the hive had amazingly made it through the winter untreated and numbers low and then re-queened.
S

 

[Queens59]

Stiffy - that is what I originally thought to do. Now though, HM has laid in BB and 2 of 3 supers (she fits through QE, so stopped using it). It is too big to go into winter...but cannot divide super frames with brood from those with stores only.

I cannot then minimise hive for varroa treatment, and to make a suitable cluster space for winter...They simply do not allow us access for the time frame required. This is the first hive I have ever actually been scared of - the alarm pheromone is in the air within seconds and we are talking hundreds of stings between the two of us...

 

[Stiffy]

I must admit I was scared of the one I had as well and used to wear two suits! They still managed to sting through them and covered the masks to the extent I couldn't see and my arms were completely covered! I decided there was in reality only a couple of choices, petrol them at night or leave and hope varroa took its toll that they reduced in number over winter, if they perished....,well never mind. I was lucky they were at an isolated out apiary and I didn't need to contemplate moving them. I left them untreated and they reduced to 3-4 frames by April when I requeened and then treated. Otherwise I would have gone after dark sealed and poured petrol, sad but sometimes there's no other 'practical' and safe option.
S

 

[For want of a better word]

OK - The hive from hell must die - or at least be re-queened...but I do wonder if they are beyond help.


A thought... as it would seem you do not want to loose or kill your defensive colony of nasty bees.

May need two of you with nerves of steel and dressed appropriately.....

Put an empty brood with frames in on bottom of hive... shake smoke remove ALL the bees from the rest of the hive.
Afix a good queen excluder... not a wire one , but possibly one of the new plastic ones with a bee space built in....atop the empty brood box... reassemble the hive without any bee in it ( all should be in bottom box).
24 hours later, block up and remove, bottom brood box... majority of bees will now be in rest of hive and in old brood with brood you moved up day before.

Take new brood box that is plugged up with the queen excluder firmly afixed to a place far away from your othe colonies and pour a cup full of unleaded petrol in, cover and walk away
The nasty queen and more importantly all the nasty gene carrying drones will have perished.
RE QUEEN the colony with a new queen of known good temperament, and go back into the colony and remove any queen cells, including superceedure cells, for the next week... 10 days... you will then eliminate the chance of any old eggs being brought on.

I have had this problem of over aggressive bee when Carniolians have inbred with buckfasts or similar imports.
Good Luck

 

[user 6228]

OK - The hive from hell must die - or at least be re-queened...but I do wonder if they are beyond help.


A thought... as it would seem you do not want to loose or kill your defensive colony of nasty bees.

May need two of you with nerves of steel and dressed appropriately.....

Put an empty brood with frames in on bottom of hive... shake smoke remove ALL the bees from the rest of the hive.
Afix a good queen excluder... not a wire one , but possibly one of the new plastic ones with a bee space built in....atop the empty brood box... reassemble the hive without any bee in it ( all should be in bottom box).
24 hours later, block up and remove, bottom brood box... majority of bees will now be in rest of hive and in old brood with brood you moved up day before.

Take new brood box that is plugged up with the queen excluder firmly afixed to a place far away from your othe colonies and pour a cup full of unleaded petrol in, cover and walk away
The nasty queen and more importantly all the nasty gene carrying drones will have perished.
RE QUEEN the colony with a new queen of known good temperament, and go back into the colony and remove any queen cells, including superceedure cells, for the next week... 10 days... you will then eliminate the chance of any old eggs being brought on.

I have had this problem of over aggressive bee when Carniolians have inbred with buckfasts or similar imports.a
Good Luck

Try a cylinder of Co2 with a regulator and a long rubber tube... seal up the entrance and bottom introduce the co2 from the top throu as crown board/feeding board hole. Add Co2 until the buzzing stops.
This will first anaesthetise ... and if left long enough kill them.
if you just anaethetise you can sort out the queen separatly from the workers.
This method leaves no mess no contamination no smell.

The following welding gases will work
Argon, Argon Co2 mix,

 

[Little John]

The queen keeps getting throught the QE ...

That has been the case with my 'loco' hive as well - bit of a long shot - but I wonder if there could be a connection between small queens and this type of behaviour ?

My other queens don't pass through a q/x and aren't so crazy, although like all bees they have their 'off days'.

LJ

 

[Queens59]

That has been the case with my 'loco' hive as well - bit of a long shot - but I wonder if there could be a connection between small queens and this type of behaviour ?

My other queens don't pass through a q/x and aren't so crazy, although like all bees they have their 'off days'.

LJ

Quite possibly...she was the hive I had intended to breed from this summer - until they superceded and became such a dreadful lot...we will get braver - and have a go.