Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting

[Hivemaker.]

Thought this post on Beesource may be of interest to some folks on here,if the link works..
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249478

 

[BKF Admin]

This bit has me confused:

With cut cells, mating success is normally better than with grafted cells.

Any ideas why this should be ?

 

[madasafish]

The method is not dissimilar to:

http://www.mdasplitter.com/

Mel Disselkoen using a cut cell to induce queen cell manufacture..

Except Mel's system appears a lot simpler.

 

[oliver90owner]

Admin,

Any ideas why this should be ?

This must be due to Farrr's Law - copied here, in italics, from the mdasplitter link

Farrar’s Law

Dr. C. L. Farrar stated in his article Production Management of Honey Bee Colonies that “Any break in larval nutrition is detrimental when one realizes that a queen larvae must increase about 1,500 times in weight between hatching and completion of its feeding 5 days later. It is not enough that a queen lay fertile eggs; she must be fully developed if she is to be a good queen, one capable of building and maintaining a full-strength colony.”

This is so important that I have taken the liberty for these disclosures to call it Farrar’s Law. Since most novices can’t graft without breaking larval nutrition.

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

.
When I read these forum post, many try to rear queens in 3 frame nucs or so.
These queens will be mostly very small like workers.

We talk here often about many very fine details but often our doings are out of suitable borders.

Nowadays I like to rear queens in swarming queen cells. Acceptance is very good and queens are huge large.

A author of book "Bad Beekeeping" Ron Miksha tells that his brother reared queens in swarming hives and he got many prices of best queens.

I live here in north. I have not noticed problems in mating. Of course if I try to rear queens very early in May, weathers are so cold that bees cannot even fly onto willow flowers. Often here professional queen seller fail totally before mid of June because long rainy periods may exist.

 

[Finman]

Admin,

to call it Farrar’s Law.

That is really too much said. You need not to rear queens many years when you find what is good. That is Finman's law.

 

[steve1958]

Finman's Law sounds ok to me

 

[Finman]

This bit has me confused:

With cut cells, mating success is normally better than with grafted cells.

Any ideas why this should be ?

I do not understand this. I have not noticed any difference between grafted and swarming cell queens.

When I graft queens, sometimes individuals are very small. I kill those which do not satisfy me. Mating nucs rear queens too, and they are mostly really small.

Why queens are not able to lay 2 box brood? - I do not try quess why. I just discard them.

I need not know everything.

.

 

[mbc]

A properly graffted larvae will be scooped up and deposited in a drop of royal jelly and put back into a cell raiser before this food source is exhausted so there shouldnt be any " breaking larval nutrition " . If any have been badly grafted, as Finman says, they should show themselves by looking smaller later on.

 

[Finman]

.
When a queen emerges and I do no see the "rest" royal jelly at bottom of cell, I discard the queen.

Many take queens from emergency cells and often royal jelly has ceased in the cell during rearing.

 

[RoofTops]

Some people prime the grafting cell with dilute royal jelly and some even do the graft and then remove the larva after a day or so and graft again. However, Vince Cook said he found no difference between queens grafted "dry" and those grafted into a primed cell.

 

[blackbrood]

great link Hivemaker, excellent pictures and good easy to follow narrative.

 

[Hivemaker.]

great link Hivemaker, excellent pictures and good easy to follow narrative.

They have now made it like a sticky,so direct to just this subject, without all the other posts and comments. link below

http://www.beesource.com/resources/...queen-cells-without-grafting-cut-cell-method/

 

[blackbrood]

LOL.... I have just done the same. pulled the pictures and text of on to a powerpoint for reference.

I love those queen banks and the explanation on how they work. Thats the first real explanation I have read from some one with hands on experience and the chap made it sound very simple.

what I want next are the dimensions, he mentions 1inch strips of wood and tight knit mesh. I think I will have a go at one of those just for the fun of it.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

That is a very good link and great pictures, thank HM

I have been doing a similar operation for queen production as that, but the link above is far simpler and looks more productive than what I have done.

I will aim to follow the above this year.

I can use all the bits of broken wax I have!!!

 

[blackbrood]

I have had a go at making one of these and the cages. Not bad for a first try, wasnt to hard either, a few mistakes but not many.

Link here to blog with lots more piccies

BB

 

[Hivemaker.]

Nice pictures BB,i used to make the cages as well,but now just use a normal brood frame,and the ready made plastic queen cages,as these are quite narrow. Also have an area for food,and places where the queen can get away from the mesh, and hopefully prevent the bee's from damaging her tarsi.

 

[blackbrood]

some thing like these Hivemaker, these are the jz bz queen cages?

 

[Hivemaker.]

No, i don't use the jzbz type in the banking/nursury frame,athough you can use them in the battery box that is made for them...i find the jzbz type good for introducing virgins to established mini nucs if needed.

The puzzle cages like in the link below, are good to fit into a frame,or just use loose.
http://www.buzzybeeshop.co.uk/page3/page13/page13.html

 

[blackbrood]

Thanks Hivemaker. they would be a lot easier to use and I can see how they would work the same but take up less space.