Question about Shallow Supers

[LeeBargh]

Hi,

Just joined and looking for a bit of advice.

I'm new to bee keeping (no bees yet, still waiting for my NUC to arrive). I purchased a Flow Hive Classic, which is actually an 8 Frame Langstroth. I am finding that this is going to be more difficult, as most people in the local society I joined have Nationals..

Spent that much money on it that there is no going back for now.

Anyway, I'm thinking ahead to possible issues. One is that the Brood box is only 8 Frames, do you guys think that would be a problem? I see most Nationals are 10 Frame...and I'm worried about overcrowding in my second year and swarming.

The other is over-wintering. I'm thinking of buying a normal Langstroth Super and not using the Flow Frames and Flow Hive Super this year (it's an 8 Frame Deep Super). Let them collect resources in a normal Langstroth Super and over-winter with it.

Good idea? Also - If I do that i'm thinking I might be better with a shallow Langstroth Super with shallow frames, so it doesn't get too cold over winter...your thoughts?

Many Thanks

Lee

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think you raelly need to gain a bit of beekeeping knowledge before going any further - a Langstroth hive is bigger than a national so the number of frames don't really come into it.
#Why do you think you need a super for overwintering.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi,

Just joined and looking for a bit of advice.

I'm new to bee keeping (no bees yet, still waiting for my NUC to arrive). I purchased a Flow Hive Classic, which is actually an 8 Frame Langstroth. I am finding that this is going to be more difficult, as most people in the local society I joined have Nationals..

Spent that much money on it that there is no going back for now.

Anyway, I'm thinking ahead to possible issues. One is that the Brood box is only 8 Frames, do you guys think that would be a problem? I see most Nationals are 10 Frame...and I'm worried about overcrowding in my second year and swarming.

The other is over-wintering. I'm thinking of buying a normal Langstroth Super and not using the Flow Frames and Flow Hive Super this year (it's an 8 Frame Deep Super). Let them collect resources in a normal Langstroth Super and over-winter with it.

Good idea? Also - If I do that i'm thinking I might be better with a shallow Langstroth Super with shallow frames, so it doesn't get too cold over winter...your thoughts?

Many Thanks

Lee

Why don’t you ask on the Flow forum. There are U.K. Beeks there.
I shouldn’t think you need a super fir them to overwinter. Just the brood box.

 

[LeeBargh]

Beekeeping knowledge/experience would be great, however - all courses are cancelled because of lockdown.

I just didn't want to use the Flow Frames for the first year, wanted the bees to have natural food stores for the winter instead of feeding syrup.

The Flow Hive I have is an 8 Frame Langstroth Deep), so i'm not sure they would have enough stores in the brood box, depends on how the colony does between now and the end of the year. I expect to get a swarm caught for me by the end of the month, so not as much time to build up.

I was thinking a shallow super as adding a deep langstroth might get a bit cold in the winter.

Obviously I could just have no super on over the winter and feed syrup etc...just trying to see what other people do in the UK climate.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think B+ runs Langs
You could PM him or wait for him to see your post

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You also need to realise that 'Langstroth' isn't an SI standard, there are loads of different sizes and dimensions out there so you need to make sure you get the right ones

 

[Ian123]

No idea what frames your nuc will be delivered on but maismores will be having a sale end of the month and you can pick up a decent hive for £100. Can you cancel the flow or cut your losses early?

 

[pargyle]

Beekeeping knowledge/experience would be great, however - all courses are cancelled because of lockdown.
...

I was thinking a shallow super as adding a deep langstroth might get a bit cold in the winter.

Obviously I could just have no super on over the winter and feed syrup etc...just trying to see what other people do in the UK climate.

The Langstroth is a big box.. if your colony is built up properly in what's left of the season (and there's still a good time left) then the stores they store in the brood box prior to winter will be enough to see them through. If they are a bit light towards the end of Autumn you can feed them a few litres of sugar syrup to make up the stores - you don't need to feed them all through winter.

Keeping them warm ? Yes - put a slab of Insulation (Kingspan or Celotes) under the roof and make sure the holes in the crownboard are covered over.

Without intending to be rude - what beekeeping books do you have and have you read them ? You appear to be starting your beekeeping journey from a point where you don't have a complete grasp of some basics ... I'd be tempted to suggest you shelve your plans until next year and spend some time getting a bit more knowledge under your belt.

 

[LeeBargh]

No idea what frames your nuc will be delivered on but maismores will be having a sale end of the month and you can pick up a decent hive for £100. Can you cancel the flow or cut your losses early?

Hi Ian,

The Flow Hive is delivered, built and painted i'm afriad, so will be sticking with it.

I ordered a Langstroth NUC (no bees) so I can give to my local society who are going to catch and transfer a swarm to it.

Plus I will have the Langstroth NUC to help with Swarm management.

I probably would have had my bees earlier, but they all have national NUC's - hence ordering a Langstroth one..

 

[LeeBargh]

The Langstroth is a big box.. if your colony is built up properly in what's left of the season (and there's still a good time left) then the stores they store in the brood box prior to winter will be enough to see them through. If they are a bit light towards the end of Autumn you can feed them a few litres of sugar syrup to make up the stores - you don't need to feed them all through winter.

Keeping them warm ? Yes - put a slab of Insulation (Kingspan or Celotes) under the roof and make sure the holes in the crownboard are covered over.

Without intending to be rude - what beekeeping books do you have and have you read them ? You appear to be starting your beekeeping journey from a point where you don't have a complete grasp of some basics ... I'd be tempted to suggest you shelve your plans until next year and spend some time getting a bit more knowledge under your belt.

Thanks, good feedback. I'm starting to get a good grasp, just more using this forum as a sounding board. I read a lot mixed approaches on using a feeder over winter or leaving a super on. having a Langstroth in the UK looks like it's making things a bit more difficult as most people have nationals.

Currently reading through the Haynes Bee Manual and also Bee Keeping for dummies. Plus lots of web reading and youtube.

I have joined my local society and I am a member of the bbka, but unfortunately no courses are running anywhere.

I have a mentor assigned to me, and will be making full use of him. Just going to have to be a suck it and see approach for me this year I think.

 

[drex]

In at the deep end. I wish you well. I agree with Pargyle, so please get a good book and read it. I started with Ted Hoopers guide to bees and honey, but I hear the Haynes book is good for newcomers. The first couple of years are a steep learning curve and a challenge. Your lack of knowledge has already taken you down a road that a lot would consider a dubious choice ( and an expensive one). Your start up will be easier with some reading.

 

[LeeBargh]

In at the deep end. I wish you well. I agree with Pargyle, so please get a good book and read it. I started with Ted Hoopers guide to bees and honey, but I hear the Haynes book is good for newcomers. The first couple of years are a steep learning curve and a challenge. Your lack of knowledge has already taken you down a road that a lot would consider a dubious choice ( and an expensive one). Your start up will be easier with some reading.

Oh I agree...I saw an advert for Flow Hives on Facebook, thought it would be a great idea and immediately purchased one. Then realised their was more to it than just dropping a few thousand bees in a box.

Luckily I am a very quick study (online self taught in half a dozen technology certifications) - I can easily chew through 20-30 hours a week of study.

First thing I did was to join the local association, but it kinda sucks for me that everything is in lock down.

I'm the kind of guys that want's to know everything in-depth, but i'm also one that jumps feet first unfortunately. Luckily though - I do stick things out and don't get disheartened..If things aren't going my way - I just put in more time and effort.

Such is the nature of the human race...

 

[pargyle]

O
First thing I did was to join the local association, but it kinda sucks for me that everything is in lock down.

I'm the kind of guys that want's to know everything in-depth, but i'm also one that jumps feet first unfortunately. Luckily though - I do stick things out and don't get disheartened..If things aren't going my way - I just put in more time and effort.

Such is the nature of the human race...

The Haynes Manual is good .. beekeeping for dummies - less so. If you can find a copy of Bees at the Bottom of the Garden by Alan Campion and read that a couple of times it will lead you gently into the basics - it's not perfect but it's a well explained, easy read with pictures and diagrams.

The Haynes manual will lead you through your first year on a step by step basis but remember you will be starting a fair bit into the season so bear that in mind.

 

[Buzzlodge]

If you expect to get a nuc in the near future, the best you can hope for this season is to allow the colony to build out.
Thus you shouldn't need to use the super element of the flowhive until next season.
As I understand it, most flowhivers remove the super element for winter. If using the super, you also need to be careful if you are in an area where bees store ivy in autumn (or rape in spring) and these can set in the flow hive and gum it up.
I agree that the Haynes annual is the best intro book. Remember the flow hive only does away with the need to extract the honey, all other beekeeping jobs/inspections etc are exactly the same as with the other hive models.