Queenless Nuc to Raise Cells?

[Stedic]

Hi everyone,

Can I use a strong, queenless Nuc (would be 6 x 14x12) to raise queen cells?

I need to remove some 14x12s after a Bailey change which has gone awry (back to Nationals) and thought I could use the frames with sealed brood to establish a queenless nuc.

I don't need to raise many cells as I'm mainly doing it for my own interest. Being in a nuc would allow me to move them down to my mentors apiary and allow me to have a go at grafting from his nicer queens.

Doing this would give me a portable cell raisers (handy)and get rid of some of the 14x12 frames (handy). I would look to try about 5 grafts. I'm not at all worried about weakening the donor colony as the queen is a bit nasty and is on the squashing list should the grafts take!

 

[madasafish]

Yes. For best results, shake in some nurse bees and feed.(pollen sub and syrup)
Also read http://doorgarden.com/2011/11/07/simple-honey-bee-queen-rearing-for-beginners/

 

[eltalia]

Hi everyone,
Can I use a strong, queenless Nuc (would be 6 x 14x12) to raise queen cells?

Sure... see an earlier post on the topic;

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=44502
post #5

I need to remove some 14x12s after a Bailey change which has gone awry (back to Nationals)
and thought I could use the frames with sealed brood to establish a queenless nuc.

Sure... use it as a 'feeder' colony for freshly capped brood frames during any process you choose rather
than just take all frames when starting your queenless up.

I don't need to raise many cells as I'm mainly doing it for my own interest. Being in a nuc would allow
me to move them down to my mentors apiary and allow me to have a go at grafting from his nicer queens.

Starting and raising how you intend is best done in a "nuc" anyway, whatever, but think some more
on why it is necessary for you to to take the "nuc" to mentor's for grafting....?... would it not be more efficient
- over the whole process - to bring their seed frame to your apiary?
Likewise when looking at two setups over just the one - start and raise in the one nuclei/queenless colony, way
more efficient and arguably "safer".
No??

Doing this would give me a portable cell raisers (handy)and get rid of some of the 14x12 frames (handy).
I would look to try about 5 grafts. I'm not at all worried about weakening the donor colony as the queen
is a bit nasty and is on the squashing list should the grafts take!

For the amount of bees and brood you are to remove from this resource colony the numbers lost to it are
insignificant as it has to be a strong colony to start with to own the resources you will require.

So.... think your Plan through and have all the resources at hand and/or available before you do anything.
Includes hardware as entrance QR/cell cages/cell removal tools/cell mount bar(s)/frames.
When you first move capped brood and stores, move those bees with them.
Do not go shaking bees onto frames in a box - man hasn't those skills.
Set your Plan for the optimum window locally in consideration of weather and forage. Never feed supplement
- including lollywater (syrup) - to breeding lines, ever.
Ideally start with two frames of stores, one of capped brood and two frames of new eggs with some developed
lavae at all stages, choose carefully from your seed parent colony. The capped brood goes central skirted by
the seed frames with stores to the outer. when adding either more stores or capped brood these go to the
outer, preferably the capped brood to the warm side.

....more IF required.


Bill

 

[maddydog]

I was at an out apiary yesterday pondering this very question while searching for a suitable starter colony. I reckon a converted Payne's poly 14*12 with a top feeder would work well as a portable starter. Q- and packed full of young bees I could move it to whichever site I wanted to graft from and it could stay there if the first grafts don't take.

 

[For want of a better word]

If you want 10 grafts to go to mated queens to start new colonies,,,,,, graft 50.

Make sure the q- nuc does not have any brood to feed... and plenty of stores AND pollen.... restock with some frames of new sealed brood weekly as the brood hatches out.. cram them in!!

Some say 24 hours in starter..but I have left them in for 48 without any problem, before moving to q+ finisher!

Good luck
Chons Da

 

[Plenty of honey]

Hi everyone,

Can I use a strong, queenless Nuc (would be 6 x 14x12) to raise queen cells?

I need to remove some 14x12s after a Bailey change which has gone awry (back to Nationals) and thought I could use the frames with sealed brood to establish a queenless nuc.

I don't need to raise many cells as I'm mainly doing it for my own interest. Being in a nuc would allow me to move them down to my mentors apiary and allow me to have a go at grafting from his nicer queens.

Doing this would give me a portable cell raisers (handy)and get rid of some of the 14x12 frames (handy). I would look to try about 5 grafts. I'm not at all worried about weakening the donor colony as the queen is a bit nasty and is on the squashing list should the grafts take!

You can raise queens in anything providing its completely full of Nurse bees, Pollen and fed with sirop.
What configuration you use depends on exactly your requirements. What you propose sounds like it will work, because you thought about how you could use that box in your situation, just make sure its completely packed to the brim, as though they won't all fit in.
In a really strong cell builder, you can expect about an average of 40 finished grafts, if you leave the builder to finish the grafts. so if your looking to make say 10, just graft 10. those individual cells will be the best they could be because the bees are easily able to give them the maximum care during all the 5 days of development before their capped over on day 5.
Just remember if you use a queen less nun (recently made queen less, they may , or will certainly make cells elsewhere. However this should be still able to make quality cells, full of RJ . just go in on a day 2/3 and remove unwanted cells from any frames, otherwise they may remove your cells in favour of their own cells.
Difficult on a small scale i apreciate! please post your results. Many try to raise a few queens on a small scale and its probably more difficult than creating a huge starter colony , with ample resources, that most of us do!
Have fun!!

 

[Stedic]

Thanks for all the advice.

The reason for moving the nuc rather than the eggs from my mentors hive is that my bees are 3 miles from home, whereas he lives down the street. So I can graft, add to my nuc and transfer to mating nucs quite easily.

I’m sure I could do this more easily using other methods, but I’m keen to try doing it this way so I have the skills to increase production as/when/if I get to that point.

Slightly off subject, but how long can a virgin stay in a mini nuc? Presumably as soon as she lays it is time to move her on?

 

[eltalia]

"Slightly off subject, but how long can a virgin stay in a mini nuc?"

There is a window beyond which she reverts to drone layer.
What that number actually is I myself have never tested as
it is n0t something I could willingly sanction - a queen breeder
would certainly know the actual number over the various
theroretical values floating about.

Good lucks, and mind how you go.

Bill

 

[Poly Hive]

Yes and no. If you move her on as soon as she is laying you know that she is mated only. If you wait for the brood to be sealed then you know if she is mated well or not.

I wait that extra week myself plus it gives her the chance, especially as the first queen in the unit, to build it up for the next go round.

PH

 

[Stedic]

Yes and no. If you move her on as soon as she is laying you know that she is mated only. If you wait for the brood to be sealed then you know if she is mated well or not.

I wait that extra week myself plus it gives her the chance, especially as the first queen in the unit, to build it up for the next go round.

PH

Excellent. So about 4 weeks ish?

 

[eltalia]

"Excellent. So about 4 weeks ish?"

There do exist recognisable breeders reading these UK
forums so I'll leave the number for those to comment on
as 'local' knowledge, and simply note that were a month
the number breeders here in Aussie would not have a
business.

Bill