Queen Piping for a week now!

[thedozzer]

We had our one and only hive swarm, luckly they went next door into the spare hive, we then went into the old hive took one frame with QC's, One with Caped brood and one of stores into a nuc, then knocked down all but 1 viable QC (so we thought), put in 3 new frames and left them to it = 20th April, we though that it should have been about 15 days before needing to inspect all of them again as the QC were all Larvae?

We have had loud Queen piping for about the last 6 days in the old hive so we probably missed a QC, but with all the piping are they going to swarm again or is she looking to remove any competition?
its not covered to any detail i can find so any ideas, experience or pointers would be great.

 

[Beagle23]

We had our one and only hive swarm, luckly they went next door into the spare hive, we then went into the old hive took one frame with QC's, One with Caped brood and one of stores into a nuc, then knocked down all but 1 viable QC (so we thought), put in 3 new frames and left them to it = 20th April, we though that it should have been about 15 days before needing to inspect all of them again as the QC were all Larvae?

We have had loud Queen piping for about the last 6 days in the old hive so we probably missed a QC, but with all the piping are they going to swarm again or is she looking to remove any competition?
its not covered to any detail i can find so any ideas, experience or pointers would be great.

Best thing to do is go through the old hive and check on the number of queens and QCs, stores and number of bees. If there are two queens or additional QCs you will probably get a cast swarm.

If you do find 2 or more queens (it does happen, last year I had two hatched queens-sisters- cohabiting), either do a split if your colony is strong enough, or squish/put to one side one of the queens

 

[thedozzer]

Best thing to do is go through the old hive and check on the number of queens and QCs, stores and number of bees. If there are two queens or additional QCs you will probably get a cast swarm.

If you do find 2 or more queens (it does happen, last year I had two hatched queens-sisters- cohabiting), either do a split if your colony is strong enough, or squish/put to one side one of the queens

Hi Beagle Thanks, think i am about an hour late as they have just swarmed again, so a second cast, but they have swarmed 3 times since the first split and all come back so will wait and see, cant get to where they have absconded.
Would they swarm even if there were no more viable QC's?

 

[Bakerbee]

Oh thedozzer that sounds like my first year. Good news is youll be learning alot on swarming. On my 1st years swarming experience i had a cast swarm the very morning i was leaving to take my daughter to uni. She got stressed waiting while i caught and housed them. I found 6 virgin queens all in this cast swarm! This year i have been ridiculously thorough going through and finding all swarm cells when foing an AS They can be really crafty buggers hiding them away so take your time and go through every frame Good luck

 

[thedozzer]

Oh thedozzer that sounds like my first year. Good news is youll be learning alot on swarming. On my 1st years swarming experience i had a cast swarm the very morning i was leaving to take my daughter to uni. She got stressed waiting while i caught and housed them. I found 6 virgin queens all in this cast swarm! This year i have been ridiculously thorough going through and finding all swarm cells when foing an AS They can be really crafty buggers hiding them away so take your time and go through every frame Good luck

Thanks for that Bakerbee, its definitely a very steep clearing curve.
It makes you feel like a truly incompetent beekeeper when you have tried your best and followed all the advice you have been given and half your honey collecting workforce still buggers off over the hedge!!

Sadly i think the second cast has gone, it was about 45ft up a scotch pine in our neighbours garden and its not there now, plus i have run out of equipment to put them in.

 

[Bakerbee]

A piece of advice i was given on here is you can be an experienced beek, do all the right manipulations and they still swarm. Swarming is how they pass on their genetics and procreate. Its the most fundamental drive in all species. Imagine parents doing there best to keep teenagers from having sex. Some will be guided and wont but some will ignore their parents best efforts and have sex. At least its still early in the season, plenty of time to let them build up.

 

[eltalia]

A b'keep can so much control swarming IF accepting a swarm cannot issue without a queen.
A fundamental of the ecology.
So, control the queen and swarming is no issue... and clipping won't control her.

Bill

 

[Bakerbee]

Well eltatia perhaps someone gave me some moral support about the inevitability of swarming for newbeeks. As i was trying to do. The OP needs encouragement to learn and keep going, as i did and still do. Im grateful to those on here that are supportive and not led by their egos.perhaps a fuller explanation would be helpful to newbeeks.

 

[enrico]

A b'keep can so much control swarming IF accepting a swarm cannot issue without a queen.
A fundamental of the ecology.
So, control the queen and swarming is no issue... and clipping won't control her.

Bill

Well that made me laugh after 40 years of beekeeping.pray tell me your secret of controlling queens. All is not lost when your hive swarms Bakerbee. It DOES happen to the best of us. The saving grace is they leave some behind! All you need then is another queen and bobs your uncle.
E

 

[Swarm]

He traps them inside.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's called bee mismanagement, not beekeeping

 

[thedozzer]

It's called bee mismanagement, not beekeeping

I have decided that as the bees are running rings round me, until i get the hang of this over a few seasons or more i am a bee haver = i have bees, not a Beekeeper as i am failing to keep them!!

 

[eltalia]

Well eltatia perhaps someone gave me some moral support about the inevitability of swarming for
newbeeks. As i was trying to do. The OP needs encouragement to learn and keep going,
as i did and still do. Im grateful to those on here that are supportive and not led by their
egos.perhaps a fuller explanation would be helpful to newbeeks.

I'd suggest from that response there exists no insular egotism but more of "tell me as
working through fundamentals is a bridge too far for a new starter".
The "help" *is* in those words I posted. Swarming is n0t inevitable. Period.
There is the encouragement you say should be forthcoming.

Problem with handfeeding new starters is there are a number of pholosophical
pathways to reach much the same outcomes... I have learnt tackling such a
descriptive role (online) is beyond my pay level.
So it is I stuff "ego" in the draw to simply lay down fundamentals known to all, or should
be known... those so driven will find their own pathway in facilitating their outcomes.

Bill

 

[Bakerbee]

Ok el talia, you have either forgotten what it was like to be learning the fundamentals, or have never had a hive swarm. You say you put your ego in z drawer, i have decided to put your posts in a drawer. There are many beeks on here who i am very grateful to for their advice, support and explanations. If offering helpful constructive advice to beginners is above your pay grade may i suggest not reading and posting in the beginners section.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ok el talia, you have either forgotten what it was like to be learning the fundamentals, or have never had a hive swarm..

You will find over time, that the only consistency in that poster is the ability to churn out pointless and incomprehensible drivel. Seems only to crop up here occasionally to do a bit of trolling.

 

[Julie in Ash]

I read somewhere recently that there are six ways of doing something. Three will work, three won’t, one will be dangerous. This is why you get so many answers when you ask a question. Yesterday, I went to see a mentor. Not my mentor, sadly, as she lives too far away, and picked up many nuggets. Example... when building a hive stand, if you make the width of the gap the same as a frame, you can place your frames in there when inspecting a hive. It’s not the only way of building a stand of course. She also said she never stops thinking and questioning. By testing what we’ve been told is the correct way, we avoid learning other ways of doing something which may prove better. Discussion is the best way of testing. I have learned over previous years of study that no two years appear the same. Last year there were few swarms. This year is predicted to be extremely swarmy. I am sure many people, despite their best and most knowledgeable efforts and resources, will be challenged. So we should keep talking and keep questioning and we might find a way that works better for our personal circumstances.

 

[Beagle23]

As long as there's more than one queen or QC in the hive there's a chance they will go again. Now it could be that a hatched queen will dispense of her rivals but it's not really a risk worth taking.

On the plus side, even after a prime swarm and a number of casts, your hive can still pull through AND you may get honey if the flow is strong in the Summer. Bees swarming is a natural process and millions of years of evolution have conditioned them to rebuild and grow strong enough to get through the Winter.

Hang in there, the first year's a tough one but it gets easier. What you'll find as you move on with the hobby is that your instinct begins to take over from all that stuff you've read in books. It sounds corny but you'll get to know your bees and their temperament.

 

[Beagle23]

I read somewhere recently that there are six ways of doing something. Three will work, three won’t, one will be dangerous. This is why you get so many answers when you ask a question. Yesterday, I went to see a mentor. Not my mentor, sadly, as she lives too far away, and picked up many nuggets. Example... when building a hive stand, if you make the width of the gap the same as a frame, you can place your frames in there when inspecting a hive. It’s not the only way of building a stand of course. She also said she never stops thinking and questioning. By testing what we’ve been told is the correct way, we avoid learning other ways of doing something which may prove better. Discussion is the best way of testing. I have learned over previous years of study that no two years appear the same. Last year there were few swarms. This year is predicted to be extremely swarmy. I am sure many people, despite their best and most knowledgeable efforts and resources, will be challenged. So we should keep talking and keep questioning and we might find a way that works better for our personal circumstances.

Yes, a good post.
Just because someone has 50 hives and they've been beekeeping for 20 years doesn't mean they're a font of all knowledge. Advice really needs to be tailored to circumstances.

However, there are some posters on these forums that have been in the game for a long time and do post invaluable, sage advice. There are others who try but have forgotten what it's like for new beeks

 

[eltalia]

(edit)
may i suggest not reading and posting in the beginners section.

Certainly you can suggest - my response might take you a aback tho'???

Done deal.
Do read the b'keeps forum for further helpfull clues from this desk.

Bill

 

[Bakerbee]

Yawning now el talia.