queen not looking too good!!

[beesleybees]

Hi guys,

had a queenless colony, confirmed via test frame.

I added a swarm I caught a few weeks back to the hive but as I was transfering the frames, I spotted the queen. She looked really lathargic (sp?)
she even fell of the frame into the grass without any help from me. I picked her back up and placed her back on the frames in the new hive but she just sat there. Even the workers seemed to be ignoring her until after a minute or so a few came around her but it was like she didnt want to move. She was fine up until a few weeks ago but there is something i think may have caused this and i think ive made a boo boo

few weeks back, I found this queen in the swarm and decided to mark her and she was laying really well with lots of capped brood. I mark purely as its much easier to find her should I need to. I marked her in the normal way and with tippex. Thought everything went well and reintroduced her to the swarm. She warlked straight in. A few days lated I decided to check on her.
Bees had made a supercedure cell in middle of frame and I tore it down!!!!

I thought the bees may have done this as they may have sen her as damaged due to the tippex on her back but as I was sure i never damaged her in any other way, i thought they would kind of realise that she was infact fine. It was only when I introduced the queen to the colony that I seen something was up. There was no eggs or larvae in cells so she has obviously not laid for a couple of weeks.

any idea what I should do? Ive left them to it in the hope she 'perks' up. should I leave it a week or should I at least put a frame of brood in with them and she what they do

 

[user 7889]

Is she still laying? If so, you could just take her out and the colony will make an emergency queen cell, or do nothing and wait for the colony to decide the next step. If they make another supercedure cell, don't tear it down! If she isn't laying, then I would take her out, and put a frame with eggs from another colony if you have one. Again, an emergency queen cell should appear on this frame.

Out of interest, why did you decide to tear down the supercedure cell? Personally I would trust the colony's judgement, and allow the supercedure to proceed. Particularly if you have not had issues with your marking process previously.

I believe that after swarming, supercedure can often follow, as the queen is normally not so young. I am sure some one more knowledgeable than me will be along in a moment to correct me if I am wrong!

 

[Finman]

.
If bees want to supercede the queen, they do it, even if in Janury. Then you will have drone layer in Spring.

Laying queen may be miserable looking in swarm. However it has flied with swarm.

.bye a mated queen and donT REAR QUEEN FROM UNKNOWN SOURCE.

 

[Finman]

I believe that after swarming, supercedure can often follow, as the queen is normally not so young. I am sure some one more knowledgeable than me will be along in a moment to correct me if I am wrong!

yes, so they do if queen is 2-3 years old.
I have not met that swarm supecedes 1 y old queen.

 

[oliver90owner]

I have not met that swarm supecedes 1 y old queen.

Finman is correct and your information may have been misunderstood at the time you found it.

A better genral rule is that a queen only swarms once. That would infer supercedure would be her general replacement modus operandi. When that might poccur is another matter - if she were old, it could be soon after founding the new colony, or if younger, sometime before they decide to swarm again, or if her brood laying capacity diminishes. There would, of course, be exceptions to that rule.

 

[beesleybees]

Looks like I've messed up then. Only option now is to remove failing queen and merge a further swarm with the still queenless colony. I would rather give them a laying queen, don't really want to give them a frame if brood for them to rear emergency queen cells. Always been told emergency queen cells are nowhere near as good as swarm or supercedure cells when producing a queen

 

[Poly Hive]

Slow down please.

Seems you have interrupted a sup situation yes. Provided she is still laying they will restore matters for you provided you let them have their cell.

A supercedure line is one to look after.

Provided she still is laying then they will proceed. If she is clean off the lay then that is another matter and you will need to as you say re-queen or unite.

PH

 

[Norton]

I'm not surprised, she is 86 and has been on and off the throne off for 60 years. What do you expect?