Queen marking

[Strit]

Hi, I got my first hive last year and so far has gone perfectly surviving the winter. I want to rear a couple of new queens to increase the number of hives I have. For this I was going to get a marking pen, so red for this year, but was wondering if it's just worth buying a set of five. Will I need to remark last year's queen, I'm not sure if the paint wears off or is durable enough to last the life of the queen? I don't want to waste money on a full set only to find they all dry up after a year or two of having them.
Many thanks,
Will.

 

[JamezF]

I'd just get each pen as you need it. It's not like there won't be things you need each year. Unless of course you wish to practise marking drones, in which case you'll be wanting another that is not red for this year as well.

James

 

[Ian123]

You’ve only got a few hives there’s no need to go colour coding. Google toma pens they are the best and longest lasting imo….. I like the floro pink! Or stick with white.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I use Toma pens Fluorescent green or pink for swarms. I don't think there is any need to colour code unless you are selling queens

 

[fian]

Marking or not a queen has a lot to do with the apiary management format.
If you intend to change queens every or every two years then marking the queen is a waste of resources.
Marking a queen only makes sense if there is going to be a long follow-up (3 or more years) and it is likely that in the second year you will have to perform a re-marking (the ink fades over time).

 

[Newbeeneil]

Marking or not a queen has a lot to do with the apiary management format.
If you intend to change queens every or every two years then marking the queen is a waste of resources.
Marking a queen only makes sense if there is going to be a long follow-up (3 or more years) and it is likely that in the second year you will have to perform a re-marking (the ink fades over time).

I think you miss the main point. Most people mark their queens to enable them to find them easier in subsequent inspections

 

[drex]

Just make a note of her year in your records. I use fluorescent pink only

 

[user 20297]

Marking a queen, particularly if they do use varying colours, could be very useful if the beekeeper wants to know when their bees have superseded the queen, or if they want confirmation that the colony has swarmed, and possibly, where they have swarmed to. .
If you're doing that, you might as well use the standard colour-coding for year.

 

[philipm]

If you are not selling queens use one colour just to spot her or dont bother marking at all. Its not always about finding the queen.

 

[Strit]

Thanks for all the feedback. When I got this first colony the guy drilled into me the mnemonic "Will You Rear Good Bees" and thought I'd be doing wrong to deviate from that advice. Good to know what everyone else does. I think I'll just stick with a single colour to easily find the queen and if I start getting a lot of hives or selling then I'll move to the standard colour coding system, which could be a few years away.
Thanks everyone and hope you have a successful year!

 

[Garry R]

I have found the fluorescent green or the fluorescent blue are easily seen. Plain green and red are awful (colour blindness!) and I find white seems to wear a bit and get grubby. The plain blue is too dark. Yellow is OK. These are personal preferences.

 

[pevanstone]

I to like to Snellgrove but l never modify,but l feel Q marking a necessity,going to a 22 frame colony with an unmarked queen fills me with tribulation,my old mentor long ago said,why do you bother.but when l get 2 bc and 2s full my nerve cracks.l don’t think l know they will swarm.but now in old age l find like last year lifting a 50lb bc plus sg board off the top of 5 or 6 supers daunting.it is tricky to keep board attached,l use steps with curved top and deep treads.can someone please tell me the earliest l can mark a queen with no risk,l have heard that marking can induce supersedure.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I find that marking a queen does not necessarily make her any easier to find, in the end, you get obsessed with looking for a coloured spot rather than a queen, fine until there's a supersedure - perfect or imperfect.
I've always used the marking convention, my view is, if I stick to the colours then if I lose a swarm, the person collecting it (unless she is a 'white' queen) can make a guess at the age of the queen - or at least know it's come from a managed colony, not one of these apocryphal 'wild' colonies of 'survivor' bees.
Also, in my case I have enough difficulty in remembering to put my trousers on when I get up in the morning, let alone know what age queen to expect in the colony, the colour of the queen can often have an influence of any decisions I make when I find something in the colony which needs further action (for example, Demarree, A/S, split or blind panic) so I stick with the colouring convention, with fluorescent pink for unknown swarm queens or ones destined for the gatepost at the first opportunity (fluorescent spots do tend to stand out clearly).
I make sure that each queen is marked by the end of the season, any unmarked ones I find at the beginning of the next season I assume are late supersedures and I mark them with the previous season's colour.
Posca pens will last for years ( I have some here in their fourth 'season' now) I'm still uncertain about the Toma ones, they spots do last well but I find the pens get gunked up very easily unless you take care with them. as for longevity of the spots, I've had some Toma marks that have lasted a few weeks and last year I had a colony supersede a queen I reared in 2018 and the red mark was still, albeit a lot smaller, clearly visible.
As for not needing to mark them if you intend on changing them regularly, I think in that case it's even more important to mark them to ensure you know which ones need to be changed.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

please tell me the earliest l can mark a queen with no risk,l have heard that marking can induce supersedure.

never found or heard that, although the wise move is to not mark until there are plenty of drones around, just in case the bees think the newly marked queen stinking of human is an interloper and balls her.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Marking queens is important in my operation. I need to know if the queen I installed is the queen that is now present.
I also sell many hundreds of queens each summer and I want my customers to know their new queens are from my own breeding program.
I don't like the paint pens. They leak. They dry out. When you least expect it, the pen gushes all over the queen.
I much prefer to use a bit of acrylic model paint and a bit of Timothy.

https://www.frenchhillapiaries.com/videos/2019/1/18/queen-marking

 

[Into the lions den]

Marking queens is important in my operation. I need to know if the queen I installed is the queen that is now present.
I also sell many hundreds of queens each summer and I want my customers to know their new queens are from my own breeding program.
I don't like the paint pens. They leak. They dry out. When you least expect it, the pen gushes all over the queen.
I much prefer to use a bit of acrylic model paint and a bit of Timothy.

https://www.frenchhillapiaries.com/videos/2019/1/18/queen-marking

Agree with you there Michael. We use a parallel colour system to be sure we know which are our 'bred' queens and which are just field raised. Its the same for customers if they find a violet, or orange, or pink..and so on..marked queen. It is a very helpful management tool.

 

[pevanstone]

I find that marking a queen does not necessarily make her any easier to find, in the end, you get obsessed with looking for a coloured spot rather than a queen, fine until there's a supersedure - perfect or imperfect.
I've always used the marking convention, my view is, if I stick to the colours then if I lose a swarm, the person collecting it (unless she is a 'white' queen) can make a guess at the age of the queen - or at least know it's come from a managed colony, not one of these apocryphal 'wild' colonies of 'survivor' bees.
Also, in my case I have enough difficulty in remembering to put my trousers on when I get up in the morning, let alone know what age queen to expect in the colony, the colour of the queen can often have an influence of any decisions I make when I find something in the colony which needs further action (for example, Demarree, A/S, split or blind panic) so I stick with the colouring convention, with fluorescent pink for unknown swarm queens or ones destined for the gatepost at the first opportunity (fluorescent spots do tend to stand out clearly).
I make sure that each queen is marked by the end of the season, any unmarked ones I find at the beginning of the next season I assume are late supersedures and I mark them with the previous season's colour.
Posca pens will last for years ( I have some here in their fourth 'season' now) I'm still uncertain about the Toma ones, they spots do last well but I find the pens get gunked up very easily unless you take care with them. as for longevity of the spots, I've had some Toma marks that have lasted a few weeks and last year I had a colony supersede a queen I reared in 2018 and the red mark was still, albeit a lot smaller, clearly visible.
As for not needing to mark them if you intend on changing them regularly, I think in that case it's even more important to mark them to ensure you know which ones need to be changed.

Thankyou for the reply,some old ideas dictated that early marking might induce supersedure,mature drones needed.might marking at the end of April be ok.

 

[pevanstone]

never found or heard that, although the wise move is to not mark until there are plenty of drones around, just in case the bees think the newly marked queen stinking of human is an interloper and balls her.

Thankyou

 

[blackcloud]

The pens last at least a full five year cycle in any case.

 

[ericbeaumont]

pens last at least a full five year cycle

Mine don't, and I've tried Posca, Toma and the other which was recommended. AS MP said earlier, they dry, they leak, they flood. Heard of (but not tried) another option: bottle of modelling paint & a matchstick.