Queen frame trap

[Eyeman]

I was going to do last sumer those coloss cages. They use very small cages in practice just keeping queen alive in main flow. Then after main flow bees start to rear winter bees and nature does not give yield any more.

Idea is to kill mites with oxalic when they are all free on bees.

Cage does not need frame or foundation inside. Bees draw in free space wild combs and then you cut capped brood cells off.


I nursed 30 years hives so that I killed the queen for main yield season and then fter 2 weeks I gove a new laying queen. Now queen is present but lays only one frame in 3 weeks.

It seems, that there are variations in cage usage. I have planned my cage and price is under 10€. It needs a piece of excluder to the side of free box.

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Finman
I've not been able to find the results of that 2016/17 Coloss study- they say that each of the methods studied had the same effect on colony development and queen mortality was the same. I couldn't find the results on mite numbers. Have you a reference?

 

[Eyeman]

Had a look at a Langstroth one at the Thorne sale. My guess is its wide for manufacturing reasons. The top of the QE on each side is fastened to a wooden bar which sits on each side of the top bar. (they need a better photo on the website). So the frame in the 'box' ends up quite wide.

Design must make swapping frames in and out easier.

Considering this next year. I thought the idea was to kill off a series of frames. And not to use oxalic.

If you do this at a set time of year you need one per colony. Expensive.

The Coloss study used a frame of foundation in the cage for 20 days which simplifies the manipulations. Can't find any results from the study.

 

[Finman]

Finman
I've not been able to find the results of that 2016/17 Coloss study- they say that each of the methods studied had the same effect on colony development and queen mortality was the same. I couldn't find the results on mite numbers. Have you a reference?

I have not seen their results, but experience says that it works better than anything else. Keyword is broodless


My reference is my trials during two years. I have had to death doomed hives in July. Mites were so much. I have taken all brood combs off. Then I gove pollen frames to them, that they can rear winter brood. I killed mites with trickling.

What I can say, colonies were strong after winter. I treated colonies again later in winter. Essential is that mites did not destroyded much winter brood.
So I can treat broodless hives at the end of July.

I have sprayed broodless colonies with water oxalic solution, and I have got only bad results.

As I said, I do not start to catch mites any more with open brood frames. It is waste of time.
.

 

[oliver90owner]

BH! If you want a colony broodless, just remove the queen, to another colony, completely for three weeks! The loss of three weeks worth of brood is not going to strengthen any colony. Keep it simple.

 

[Finman]

BH! If you want a colony broodless, just remove the queen, to another colony, completely for three weeks! The loss of three weeks worth of brood is not going to strengthen any colony. Keep it simple.

That is sure. But quite many colonies loose their motivation to forage honey and pollen. Aroma of the Queen motivates them to work for better future.

The pollen storage foraged during main flow is important when bees rear their winter brood.

 

[john t]

There seems to be some confusion how this method works, the queen is only restricted in the frame cage for 14 days and not 3 weeks

the 2 frames that the queen has layed up are removed and destroyed after 18 days as they will be sealed brood, and hopefully most of the varroa will be in these cells

the disadvantage is you lose 2 weeks of brood production, but possibly this is a trade off for having less varroa that will weaken the colony

 

[Hivemaker.]

There seems to be some confusion how this method works, the queen is only restricted in the frame cage for 14 days and not 3 weeks
the 2 frames that the queen has layed up are removed and destroyed

Three frames are used and destroyed in the NBU method.

another thread about this here...
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21509

 

[john t]

Three frames are used and destroyed in the NBU method.

another thread about this here...
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21509

Hivemaker thanks for posting that thread it is an interesting read well worth a look

my post was really in reference to the OP link for the thorns frame cage,as with most things relating to beekeeping, there are more than one way of doing things

 

[Hivemaker.]

Hivemaker thanks for posting that thread it is an interesting read well worth a look

my post was really in reference to the OP link for the thorns frame cage,as with most things relating to beekeeping, there are more than one way of doing things

If the queen were to be trapped for only fourteen days using two frames at the suggested time, it would be a waste of time, there would be potentially 16,000 to 17,000 cells yet to emerge along with any mites and the phoretic mites to quickly re invest any new brood the queen laid up.

 

[john t]

If the queen were to be trapped for only fourteen days using two frames at the suggested time, it would be a waste of time, there would be potentially 16,000 to 17,000 cells yet to emerge along with any mites and the phoretic mites to quickly re invest any new brood the queen laid up.

the queen may only have been caged for 14 days but there are cells still awaiting to be capped for the mites to infest up to the 18th day,
yes there will be a weeks worth of brood(from the other frames) still to hatch likely containing mites

agreed this method will not capture all the mites, it would require possibly 30 days of lost bee production and that would be devastating to most colonys

this method is about keeping the mite to a reasonable level without destroying the colony, if you were able to get down to 0 mites it wouldn't be long before they came back

it was so much easier before the varroa arrived

 

[Hivemaker.]

the queen may only have been caged for 14 days but there are cells still awaiting to be capped for the mites to infest up to the 18th day,

...up until the 20th or even 21st day, providing the queen had not laid up the frame in the first two or three days of being trapped and using a standard national deep, otherwise up to sixteen days right down to eight.

There are much easier and more effective ways of getting rid of mites than this.

 

[john t]

...up until the 20th or even 21st day, providing the queen had not laid up the frame in the first two or three days of being trapped and using a standard national deep, otherwise up to sixteen days right down to eight.

There are much easier and more effective ways of getting rid of mites than this.

its not a method i use , but some may be interested in bio-technical varroa control.

 

[Eyeman]

...up until the 20th or even 21st day, providing the queen had not laid up the frame in the first two or three days of being trapped and using a standard national deep, otherwise up to sixteen days right down to eight.

There are much easier and more effective ways of getting rid of mites than this.

What is simpler and more effective than putting a frame of foundation in a queen frame trap for 2 weeks. Release the queen and remove the frame and go back in one week and OAV. All mites apart from some drone brood will be phoretic.

 

[Hivemaker.]

What is simpler and more effective than putting a frame of foundation in a queen frame trap for 2 weeks. Release the queen and remove the frame and go back in one week and OAV. All mites apart from some drone brood will be phoretic.

If your only going to do this for two weeks at the suggested time it won't be effective enough, but the main downside is you could lose up to 28,000 bees from your hive.

 

[Eyeman]

If your only going to do this for two weeks at the suggested time it won't be effective enough, but the main downside is you could lose up to 28,000 bees from your hive.

2 weeks of Q trapping and 1 week of queen laying so
All existing worker brood will have emerged by 3 weeks. Any brood the Q has layed in the week she has been released will not yet have any mite ingress. So treat with OAV at 3 weeks and most if not all phoretic

 

[Hivemaker.]

2 weeks of Q trapping and 1 week of queen laying so
All existing worker brood will have emerged by 3 weeks. Any brood the Q has layed in the week she has been released will not yet have any mite ingress. So treat with OAV at 3 weeks and most if not all phoretic

Apart from the drone brood where most of the mites are likely to be, you could rake that out though, but still a big loss of new bees/foragers, especially at the suggested time, although this is not important if honey is not the main objective.

 

[Walrus]

The only time I used a queen trap (bought at huge expense from Thrones) it didn't work and when I came back to check she had escaped! I can't even remember what I was doing - I think it was to get larvae for grafting, but anyway, I have never used it since.

 

[oliver90owner]

I think it is a waste of time arguing with eyeman. Clearly has his blinkers firmly in position and wishes to justify his thinking at any expense. I would suggest he is left to carry on and that anyone else reading this thread will see that there are better ways to control varroa without losing a huge amount of workers for a protracted period of time.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

although this is not important if honey is not the main objective.

There are other objectives!?

 

[Hivemaker.]

There are other objectives!?

Yes, there are.