Queen Excluders

[Ely]

I am thinking of trying this season without using queen excluders and would like to hear the thoughts of members who don't use them and members who do and how it affects their beekeeping. Thankyou

 

[Bitbybit]

I did a weekend beekeeping course with a beek named Tim Rowe, he has written a book called The Rose Hive method and is very much in favour of not using a QE. He also has strong views on only keeping native bees, encouraging more drone laying and not feeding sugar (unless absolutely necessary) I enjoyed the book and the course and hope to keep bees in this manner however I do get the feeling that more experienced beeks would have different views Finman might call this "catch and release" beekeeping.

 

[enrico]

Depends solely on your reason for keeping bees. If you want decent amounts of honey you will do better with QE if you are keeping bees just for pollination then you don't need QE.
If you intend to 'manage' your bees then it is easier with QE if you want a non touch hive then you don't need one.
Etc.etc.
E

 

[Ely]

I think it depends on what you want from your bees. Some people are financially dependent on them either fully or partially, so it makes sense to them to take all the honey as it is more valuable than sugar. Others have a day job and don't mind leaving some honey. Personally I haven't had to feed sugar for winter food due to a lot of Ivy nectar being available in Autumn from the surrounding woodland. It makes it easier for me to leave them the Ivy honey than to feed sugar. I'm not sure how well Ivy honey sells. People keep bees for different reasons, that is why there are so many conflicting views that can lead to silly heated debates with no substance.

I would rather do without the excluder if, as so many beekeepers reckon, it is not neccessary and can reduce yield. I can understand why beekeepers who have show honey or cut comb honey use them.

 

[For want of a better word]

I am going to "trial" some colonies of AMMs this season without queen excluders, last season had difficulty to get them to store into second super, even if an empty one was placed between top being filled and brood plus brood and 1/2... had an excellent run on the balsam, but even best colony struggled to get to double brood.
Maybee the Beehivesupplies polly hives will prove better than the old cedar Nationals... will have to wait and see!

 

[moor141]

Some beekeepers around here call them honey excluders, however I shall continue to use them.

 

[Graham40]

When I put my bees on OSR we go without excluders but use brood boxs instead of suppers, i.e. all the same size of frame, you will find that the queen will lay all the way to the top box. However the benefit is that all the undrawn comb gets pulled out quickly, then if I want to start Nucs its easy to grab combs out of the top box's without having to dig down into the bottom box. It also alleviates swarming on the OSR. Production appears to be better. If I use suppers they go on with an excluder as I don't want her majesty laying in them. I also raid the bottom box's for frames to extract after a week and a half of flow replacing them with undrawn comb, or start colapsing the brood area back to a double brood box.

I suggest using frames all the same size, if you are going without an excluder it makes it easier to manipulate the combs as you want them.

 

[Bitbybit]

With the Rose hive method all boxes and frames - brood and super are the same size, so frames can be easily exchanged. New supers are added between the first two boxes with the aim of moving boxes upwards and moving frames around so that there is honey only in the boxes as they move up, this creates quite tall hives and honey is then simply harvested off the top when it is possible to fill a box. This method may be have problems that I have yet to discover but in effect a box filled with capped honey acts as the QE as the queen does not tend to walk on these. I would be interested in the views of others regarding this as I am a newbe

 

[Mellifera397]

The fat bee man ("fineshooter" on youtube) has a video on why he does not use queen excluders.

I havent yet kept my bees for a whole season so I'm still using the most common methods though I hope to experiment in future so if you could give us your opinion at the end of the season I would be happy to hear it.

Thanks

M

 

[oliver90owner]

I suggest using frames all the same size, if you are going without an excluder

Some might. I do not use Q/Es except for clearing brood from honey frames but would not recommend everyone to do as the poster suggests, with my hives format.

I would only use a brood box as a honey super for the specific purpose of getting frames drawn quickly and evenly on the OSR.

 

[Ely]

Do you come across any problems inspecting not using an excluder Rab?

 

[oliver90owner]

No. But I don't go looking for the queen at every inspection!

I find it much preferable - that is why I do it that way.

Regards, RAB

 

[Ely]

No. But I don't go looking for the queen at every inspection!

I find it much preferable - that is why I do it that way.

Regards, RAB

Thanks. I only look for queens when I need to mark, clip or AS. Looking for eggs is good enough. Do you find that the queen does not move above a honey band, say, your 14x12 box has a honey band on the top of the frames, does she stay below?

 

[Finman]

.
I have nursed hives without excluder the whole my life.
I want that queen may lay as much it can.

When I give to hives 3 brood boxes, queen does not need to rise to lay up to supers. When in main yield entrance is widely open, queen moves from lowest box because it is too cold, but bees fill it with pollen.

Lowest frames should be a little bit brood. Bees do not like to store pollen in white combs.

It depends on quality of queen, how much it is able to lay. Is one or two boxes enough to brood.

If ventilation is too big, queen may move even to the top most box to lay.
So open mesh floor will be the reason if the brood moves too high.
When I use electrict floor heating in spring, queen love to layn in lovest box.

When bees have good room to pollen near brood, they do not store it into supers.

*****
These are the basics how to keep brood, pollen and honey apart from each others.

.

 

[Finman]

Do you find that the queen does not move above a honey band, say, your 14x12 box has a honey band on the top of the frames, does she stay below?

To nurse without excluder is like to nurse douple brood.

First the hive has one box brood and they have honey band in upper parts of frames and on sides.

When you put a third box, you should change the order of brood boxes. Honey bands will be in the middle of brood area and the lowest parts of brood will be too in the centre. Bees move away the honey to super and the queen gets plenty of room in these cells.

This turn over is a way to get remaining winter food into circulation.

If the brood box has too full honey frames, they are better to move upp and give foundations to be drawn.

.

 

[oliver90owner]

does she stay below?

As per Finman.

If it very cold she may lay straight up the middle - bees are not stupid, so they don't expend energy unecessarily in keeping brood warm - but usually it is a matter of slipping in an excluder towards the end of the OSR - they will quickly refill vacated brood cells with honey, so it can be removed at the end of the flow or very soon after. There might be some rearrangement of shallow frames, but as a hobby beek, with only a few hives, that is no real hassle.

After that the excluders are off until August/September ready for removing the summer harvest and getting the box down to a single brood ready for winter preparations if she is still laying any brood upstairs. So, excluders are only on for a couple weeks at a time, at most and if needed.

RAB

 

[Finman]

does she stay below?


After that the excluders are off until August/September ready for removing the summer harvest and getting the box down to a single brood ready for winter preparations if she is still laying any brood upstairs. So, excluders are only on for a couple weeks at a time, at most and if needed.

RAB

That is a good style to make last extractions in time.

 

[Ely]

Thanks Rab, Finman

 

[Ely]

I had a response recently about the likely hood of bee poo contaminating honey from brood cells if an excluder isn't used. What do you reckon?

 

[oliver90owner]

You are not using it for cut comb, are you?