Queen excluders & lower entrance colonies

[Finman]

And renewing combs

It is often that I have two brood boxes too dark in spring. It means nothing. Build up is most important. Do not disturb build up.

When flow then begins a month later, and hive has 4 boxes, it draw very easily new combs. It needs no special arrangements.

But put foundations between supers and brood. It prevents swarming.

First bees fill new combs with honey. I extract them and i put the ready combs to the brood place. It depends, how the hive has developed during summer. No excluders, no Bailey excanges, no catastrophes, no shook swarms.

Old combs up, and bees fill them with honey. New combs down, and brooding moves downwards.

If ventilation is too big, and lower boxes are cold, brooding moves upstairs.

If new brood combs are in honey boxes move them down, when inspecting. And move honey frames upstairs from brood box .

I admit, that using excluder in later summer is wise.
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[omnimirage]

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I repeat: Take a contact to the beekeeping society, or go the the house where you see beehives.

6 hives is much to start. Find a person, who can look your hives and advice what to do. You loose lots of honey if you try to kearn yourself, and hou learn wrong fhings. 90% out of forum advices are vain or wrong.


You can do what ever this forum says, but you need an evaluation, where to start. And I suppose that you must spend some money to invest to your hives.
Every one must buy things to buy new frames, foundations etc.

The goal is that when you sell your honey yield, you get your money back. That is beekeeping.

You can use old combs as long as you get them renewed.

I'm not a member of the local beekeeping society. Been thinking that I should join, but even if I did, I don't see why someone would put in the time to help me like that.

These aren't my hives. A family friend stopped looking after them as he no longer had the time. I said I'd look after them, in exchange for being able to extract honey from it. He has many empty hives up there, that I use to grab new boxs/frames from. It's all dirty and needs cleaning. I don't wish to use any of my boxs/frames on it.

The site truly is a mess. My personal hives are much more maintained, and much easier to work with. I figured I needed a queen excluder on their to prevent future wax from going so dark, but I see now such might not be as important as I was thinking.

Tomorrow will be an interesting beekeeping day, that's for sure.

 

[Finman]

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OK, you have some experience about bees!. I thought that you just got hives. How many years you have had?

 

[REDWOOD]

You can just clear the supers with a clearing board, remove supers, add new box with foundation on top of original BB, feed, after a week a week or two find out which box the queen is laying (Probably top), add QE between two boxes making sure the box with brood and queen is in the top. After all the brood has emerged remove old BB.

You could just do a shook swarm but you need to find the queen first which sounds like a problem for you.

 

[Finman]

You can just clear the supers with a clearing board, remove supers, add new box with foundation on top of original BB, feed, after a week a week or two find out which box the queen is laying (Probably top), add QE between two boxes making sure the box with brood and queen is in the top. After all the brood has emerged remove old BB.

You could just do a shook swarm but you need to find the queen first which sounds like a problem for you.

Very strange. UK tricks.

Feed... It is summer in Australia and propably good flow during several months.
Normal yields are 10 fold compared to UK.

Uk ideas to get new combs are just out of normal.

Shook swarm.... That is way to destroy colony's foraging capasity. Shook swarm to make new combs... Mad idea.

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[Erichalfbee]

add new box with foundation on top of original BB, feed, after a week a week or two find out which box the queen is laying (Probably top), add QE between two boxes making sure the box with brood and queen is in the top. After all the brood has emerged remove old BB.

A bit like a Bailey, then.

Finman's idea of putting a box of frames to draw under the brood is what you do with a Warre and the queen will go down once the old brood nest has been back-filled with nectar.
If you are OK lifting all those boxes......then go for it.
Two words though......Swarm Cells

 

[REDWOOD]

Don't feed if you have 10 fold foraging
I agree a shook swarm is not the best option bit it is an option for him to get everything new in one hit.

 

[REDWOOD]

A bit like a Bailey, then.

Finman's idea of putting a box of frames to draw under the brood is what you do with a Warre and the queen will go down once the old brood nest has been back-filled with nectar.
If you are OK lifting all those boxes......then go for it.
Two words though......Swarm Cells

Exactly but just clear away the supers first. I have changed many BB's that way but as finman pointed out there is no need to feed in Australia as we do in the UK

 

[Finman]

Exactly but just clear away the supers first. I have changed many BB's that way but as finman pointed out there is no need to feed in Australia as we do in the UK

I have used tens ways during 50 years. I told here, what is sure to execute.

And if the hive does not start to draw foundations, it is often a sign, that it is going to swarm. In next inspection you may see queen cells.

 

[Beecarer]

There is another way if you look up Bailey comb exchange. This involves putting the new box on top. The bees will draw the frames and the queen will naturally go up there. Once you find brood in there put in that queen excluder. There is always a chance that you will miss the queen especially if she runs down away from smoke.

We tried a few Bailey comb changes last season and found the stress / disruption to the hives was very excessive, lots of dead bees in the inside of the old bottom box and during all the confusion of blocking the entrance on the lower box the flying bees would just keep bouncing off the old entrance and eventually instead of finding the new upper entrance they would fly over to one of the other hives.

I would like to try it again but instead this time as an experiment I would temporally take away the hive stand and reduce the height of the hive so that the new entrance is at the same level as the original flight path, hopefully that would limit the stress in the hive along with the bees getting mad angry and going AWOL.

 

[Finman]

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Now we continue again, how to destroy hive's build up. Terrible story. And for what? For natural expanding of the colony.



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[Finman]

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I wonder all tricks what beeks invent to get new combs. Hair dryers and what ever "encouraging".

Perhaps one reason is that if you try to force the bees to draw combs, and they are not willing to do that, then you need violence.

One very good opportunity is AS.
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[charlievictorbravo]

And remember, Omnimirage, that those dirty combs are not a total loss to be thrown away. Once removed from the frames, the wax can be be melted down and cleaned. After a couple of "cleanings", you would have wax clean enough to exchange for foundation or to sell.

CVB

 

[Erichalfbee]

AND......don't forget t keep a couple for your bait hives

 

[Beecarer]

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Now we continue again, how to destroy hive's build up. Terrible story. And for what? For natural expanding of the colony.

I agree it was a horrible sight to see, just absolute chaos and confusion in the hives. Ill be reading more of your posts over time to see what advice you have given on here for changing comb etc, but the bailey frame change should be banned under similar laws that exist for the prevention of cruelty to animals.

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I wonder all tricks what beeks invent to get new combs. Hair dryers and what ever "encouraging".

Perhaps one reason is that if you try to force the bees to draw combs, and they are not willing to do that, then you need violence.

One very good opportunity is AS.
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Its a wonder someone hasn't suggested turning the hive upside down with the entrance facing the north star as a way of changing comb seems pretty much everything but....

Is it true in nature (when we had wild bees) the colony would make new comb each year for brood rearing and use last years comb for stores?

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

We tried a few Bailey comb changes last season and found the stress / disruption to the hives was very excessive, lots of dead bees in the inside of the old bottom box and during all the confusion of blocking the entrance on the lower box the flying bees would just keep bouncing off the old entrance and eventually instead of finding the new upper entrance they would fly over to one of the other hives.

I would like to try it again but instead this time as an experiment I would temporally take away the hive stand and reduce the height of the hive so that the new entrance is at the same level as the original flight path, hopefully that would limit the stress in the hive along with the bees getting mad angry and going AWOL.

so..... what will happen when you replace the hive stand?

And, with respect, just how much experience do you have of Bailey comb exchanges?

Your profile says you have no hives and joined the Forum last summer.
Clearly, you do have some hives - but I would be interested in knowing more about the depths of your beekeeping knowledge and experience.

Dusty

 

[Finman]

so..... what will happen when you replace the hive stand?

Dusty

..and what then, if you do not replace?

 

[Hivemaker.]

so..... what will happen when you replace the hive stand?

They will be back on the stand, with the entrance height remaining much the same throughout the entire procedure.

 

[Finman]

Tupla
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[Finman]

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Original question was, how to get new combs into hives.
Normal solution is, that bees do them.

Where we need a beekeeper then, if bees do them? - I do not know... And perhaps the beekeeper either.
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Perhaps best what a beek can do is to heat foundations with hair dryer.
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( last summer I had over 15 y old foundations and bees draw them in couple of days without heaters. The original owner of foundations has been dead 15 years)