Queen Cells - checking top Brood Box ONLY

[Grif]

I am running on national double brood boxes, and (following advice from an experienced beekeeper) only checking the top brood box for queen cells during inspections. So far this has been fine for me, but I was wondering how widespread this method is amongst those also using double BB's?

 

[B+.]

I am running on national double brood boxes, and (following advice from an experienced beekeeper) only checking the top brood box for queen cells during inspections. So far this has been fine for me, but I was wondering how widespread this method is amongst those also using double BB's?

I would have thought its more prevalent among those with lots of hives to go through since it saves time by not going through every frame.

 

[Finman]

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If there are queen cells in the hive, they can be seen in upper brood box. It is really rare, if queen cells are only in lower box.

Angry old bees are in lower box. They are not kind when you inspect them.

 

[Bosleeu]

Not an expert by any means, but mostly check the top box only, if there are eggs in there all is normally well. I also tilt the top box slightly and check along the bottom bars. Maybe every third or fourth inspection I go through all the frames and move any empty ones up for the queen to lay in if there are any. They seem to prefer the top box.

Not foolproof but then nothing is and it works for me. The swarms I have lost have mostly been with 14x12 boxes.

 

[B+.]

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If there are queen cells in the hive, they can be seen in upper brood box. It is really rare, if queen cells are only in lower box.

Angry old bees are in lower box. They are not kind when you inspect them.

My queens can pretty much fill a double langstroth Finman. I agree the returning foragers unload their nectar to receivers at the entrance but I will have frames of brood in the bottom box too. Since swarm cells are generally found around the outside of the comb, are you saying that you don't need to tip the bottom box too?
I usually combine inspections for different purposes so I am still going frame by frame (more or less)

 

[Finman]

Since swarm cells are generally found around the outside of the comb, are you saying that you don't need to tip the bottom box too?
I usually combine inspections for different purposes so I am still going frame by frame (more or less)

I have nursed brood boxes 50 years, and I have no excluder. There are queen cells in supers too.

Actually I use 3 langstroth brood boxes. Lowest box is in main flow usually a pollen store and a nectar buffer store.

I need to see only one frame, where is queen cells. It is better to make AS at once. To make AS, I need not to inspect all frames.

I am too interested, how old are queen cells and when they are going to emerge.

When doing AS I do not break queen cells. When old bees are gone, 2/3 of brood hives will give up from swarming. The rest must be made sure, that they do not leave.

 

[Finman]

I usually combine inspections for different purposes so I am still going frame by frame (more or less)

Swarming inspections are most important during swarming time and they must be done every week. At same time I look, do they need more room and how much they have honey.

I do not inspect them frame by frame. It is rare that I look lowest box during summer.

But swapping brood boxes is important along summer. So combs will be consumed evenly.

 

[Eyeman]

The belt approach is just to tilt the top box.
If you want braces then place a couple of shallow frames in the bottom box for drone culling. If you stagger them 2 weeks apart there will nearly always be comb on one or other frame. If there are going to be queen cells in the bottom box then they love to build them on the bottom of the shallow frame. Mark the frame with a pin so you know which one to inspect.

 

[B+.]

There are queen cells in supers too. .....

I need to see only one frame, where is queen cells.

Does this mean you inspect the colony from the top-down or that you inspect the bottom of all boxes?

I appreciate what you are saying: If you find one frame with queen cells, you're more interested in how long you have before they are likely to swarm. What I am trying to get at is if you inspect the bottom of all boxes

 

[Finman]

What I am trying to get at is if you inspect the bottom of all boxes

It is rare that I inspect bottom boxes. Nothing to be seen there.

My queens lay 2 boxes, and if not, I change the queen.

 

[mbc]

Tip, pip and go for me.
It is important to know where the nest is though, if the top box has been recently added to relieve congestion, but the beekeeper was unaware the bees had already decided to make swarming preparations, then there's no good tipping and peaking, as they will have largely ignored the top box and any cells will be in the nest below.

 

[B+.]

It is rare that I inspect bottom boxes. Nothing to be seen there.

My queens lay 2 boxes, and if not, I change the queen.

My queens will fill two boxes too. I don't understand what you mean by saying there is nothing to see in the bottom box if it is full of brood. Surely, there could be swarm cells there?

 

[Dared]

It is rare that I inspect bottom boxes. Nothing to be seen there.

My queens lay 2 boxes, and if not, I change the queen.

I run double BB without an excluder on top, and have had queen cells in both the bottom and top brood boxes, even found a single queen cell on a super frame full of honey so just checking the top BB will not be 100% safe.

 

[Obee1]

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If there are queen cells in the hive, they can be seen in upper brood box. It is really rare, if queen cells are only in lower box.

Angry old bees are in lower box. They are not kind when you inspect them.

My queens will fill two boxes too. I don't understand what you mean by saying there is nothing to see in the bottom box if it is full of brood. Surely, there could be swarm cells there?

B+. My understanding of Finns method is that there is no need to look in bottom box as if there were any cells there there would also be some in top box. Therefore only need look up top

 

[For want of a better word]

Check all the boxes.
I run without excluders too as I find that they can add even more time on inspecting.
Also it seems that bees of the Italian extraction place swarm cells at bottom of upper box, Amm ( well my pure variety) go for sides and mid frame in any box!.

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

B+. My understanding of Finns method is that there is no need to look in bottom box as if there were any cells there there would also be some in top box. Therefore only need look up top

Thanks obee
I would have thought that was still a bit risky though

 

[Dared]

Check all the boxes.
I run without excluders too as I find that they can add even more time on inspecting.
Also it seems that bees of the Italian extraction place swarm cells at bottom of upper box, Amm ( well my pure variety) go for sides and mid frame in any box!.

Yeghes da

Had the same cells can be at bottom, middle or top of frame. They just don't read the books I am afraid !!

 

[Finman]

Tip, pip and go for me.
It is important to know where the nest is though, if the top box has been recently added to relieve congestion, but the beekeeper was unaware the bees had already decided to make swarming preparations, then there's no good tipping and peaking, as they will have largely ignored the top box and any cells will be in the nest below.

I add second brood box under the first brood box.
But my Italian swarm so late that it is often 4 boxes on.

It is better know, what everybody does.

 

[B+.]

I add second brood box under the first brood box.
But my Italian swarm so late that it is often 4 boxes on.

It is better know, what everybody does.

That sort-of makes sense Finman: If they establish a pollen arc and nectar above the brood, then, by placing a box underneath, you are providing space for the queen to continue laying. The problem I see is that the nectar can come in so fast that they don't respect this boundary. They will put the nectar anywhere they can and this can still restrict the queens egg-laying space.
I think most people here would add space above the nest as honey storage. The truth is, of course, they need both. That is why I dedicate the lower two boxes to brood and everything above that (hopefully) to honey. I am not using queen excluders either by the way.

 

[Finman]

That sort-of makes sense Finman: If they establish a pollen arc and nectar above the brood, then, by placing a box underneath, you are providing space for the queen to continue laying. The problem I see is that the nectar can come in so fast that they don't respect this boundary. They will put the nectar anywhere they can and this can still restrict the queens egg-laying space.
I think most people here would add space above the nest as honey storage. The truth is, of course, they need both. That is why I dedicate the lower two boxes to brood and everything above that (hopefully) to honey. I am not using queen excluders either by the way.

Nectar coming in is not a problem. It is a goal.

When it is a strong nectar flow, it is pure mesh inside the hive. But bees handle it.

When it is time to main flow, I unite hives so, that productive hive has about 6 langstroth boxes. For example if I have 3 hives with 4 boxes, I make from them 2 six box hives.

It is too important that I make from AS hives age balanced hives, which have brood, larvae and foragers and hive bees. So it is continuous flow of bees which change their role according the age.

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