Queen bee info.

[foghornleghorn]

Breeding values are "expected values" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value). There will always be variation around an expected value. That is basic statistics. So, you will always have to test to identify those scoring above the expected value. These are usually the animals you should breed from, but, you need to look at the coefficient of variation to see how homogeneous the sample is.

The problem was/is that a DNA sample from the bull was the test and the marker genes + ancestry data just aren't enough on their own to give any sort of consistency

 

[Erichalfbee]

It was Erichalfbee who brought up the topic of self mating....perhaps you should go and practice it?

Don't blame me!!!!!

 

[Beefriendly]

Don't blame me!!!!!

No blame was apportioned.

 

[B+.]

In the world of cattle breeding genomics was a big thing that was supposed to give accurate breeding values without testing. It isn't performing anywhere near as good as it was hyped up to. A lot of people going back to bulls with proven daughters

I know nothing about bulls. I was talking about breeding values - you have to look at both sides of the pedigree (not just the sire) and these will give you an expected value (not an absolutely "accurate" value) with some performing above and some below. You shouldn't think of them as a magic bullet. They're more of a guide to a rational approach.

 

[oliver90owner]

Absolute ZERO.....if not mated within three weeks of emerging they can't get mated. Known since the year dot...Huber.

What poppycock? Go back 4 or 5 seasons and queens did not start to lay (and were viable) after up to about 7 weeks, when the spring weather was so atrocious that mating would have needed to take place at around 10 degrees Celsius (the usual requirement being around 20 degrees). I think Huber may have got it wrong and some still believe in him.

And yes, I would understand that queens do not start laying immediately after mating, but that particularly cold spring was exceptional and many beekeepers, who thought their new queens would turn out to be drone layers, were pleasantly surprised. Please explain, if you can.

 

[For want of a better word]

What poppycock? Go back 4 or 5 seasons and queens did not start to lay (and were viable) after up to about 7 weeks, when the spring weather was so atrocious that mating would have needed to take place at around 10 degrees Celsius (the usual requirement being around 20 degrees). I think Huber may have got it wrong and some still believe in him.

And yes, I would understand that queens do not start laying immediately after mating, but that particularly cold spring was exceptional and many beekeepers, who thought their new queens would turn out to be drone layers, were pleasantly surprised. Please explain, if you can.

Seem to recall an article in ???Beecraft??? referring to some species of honeybee probably Amm having adaptation to delay mating if conditions were inclement.

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

the usual requirement being around 20 degrees)

Don't know which part of Lala land you live in but we would never get any queens mated around here if we needed 20C. It might be an "ideal" but around North Yorkshire any days around 15-18C seems to work, higher the better. We simply don't get many 20C days, very rare beasts.

Your description of timing fits perfectly with a three or shall we say 4 week window for mating after emergence (Winston reckons after this they go stale, so not just Huber) and then can take up to another few weeks to really begin laying. Bit variable that last bit, some are laying shortly after mating others take their time.

 

[Beefriendly]

Seem to recall an article in ???Beecraft??? r

Well then it MUST be true if published in Beecraft.......

 

[Finman]

.
Guys discussing now. You are so experienced that you should know, when Queens can make mating flights.

IT is fine to read researches, but I have seen enough, when the queens can mate.

IT is very rare that my hives can mate in September. In Spring May and first half of June are often so cold, that in many years not a sigle Queen will be mated. That is why Queen sellers select the period, when to rear Queens.

IT has no meaning should bees mate inside 21 or 22 days. IT is weather which rules, when the Queen can Finnish their matings.

What the beekeeper can do? When the hive has changes the Queen, beekeeper cannot do much. Perhaps join hives and use spare hives or spare queens.

.but what researcher says, it does not give any help.

But you can allways buy queens.

.

.

 

[Finman]

so not just Huber) and then can take up to another few weeks to really begin laying. Bit variable that last bit, some are laying shortly after mating others take their time.

IT is ridiculous to debate, when the Queen starts laying after mating. You do not even know, how many days the Queen used for mating. 1 or 4 days? Then does it lays after 2 days or 3 days .

Last year I had 15 same age queens in 3 different mating place. Laying start has one week difference. Lates layers situated in open field, where wind makes weather cooler to fly than near by forest .

What can I do ? Just wait that every queen starts to lay. Then I can move the nuc and make bigger nuc. Whole rearing process took to last queens 4 weeks.

 

[Finman]

.
I do not look for records how fast my queens do that and that. I am interested, when the last queen starts to lay, or does it lay at all. And what is the laying patern of each queen.

I inspect too, that all legs and antenna and abdomen are OK.

 

[oliver90owner]

It might be an "ideal" but around North Yorkshire any days around 15-18C seems to work, higher the better. We simply don't get many 20C days, very rare beasts.

Yeah, right. I believe statements like that are plain rubbish, too.

I actually am well enough versed with variations in temperature and weather stations. I am well aware that weather stations record temps in the shade. I am also aware that just standing on the south side of a building is often far warmer than standing in the shade on the north side of that same building.

Bees would be stupid if their drone congregation areas were in the coolest places they could find! Bees are often more clever than their keepers.

 

[Poly Hive]

Not difficult in certain cases as they keep proving week in by dreary week out.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

Yeah, right. I believe statements like that are plain rubbish, too.

Olly, your people skills still need work!
I'll leave you to insist it must be at least 20C before a virgin queen can be mated.
Fortunately my lot don't subscribe to that doctrine.

 

[Finman]

Olly, your people skills still need work!
I'll leave you to insist it must be at least 20C before a virgin queen can be mated.
Fortunately my lot don't subscribe to that doctrine.

That is not the question. .. But never met 15C. Minimum what I have met is 18C, bright sunshine and no wind. The Queen needs 1-3 good mating days.
.
Good results become if few days are over 20C , calm and sunny. Most of virgins succeed then.

.

 

[Beefriendly]

"In our study, the flight duration also decreased with decreasing temperatures whereas the flight frequency increased"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4592583/
Figure 6 is the one you should look at.

 

[Finman]

" tupla

 

[Finman]

"In our study, the flight duration also decreased with decreasing temperatures whereas the flight frequency increased"
at.

And what does it mean? I have seen, that virgins are outside even in colder weather, but they do not have mating sign in their abdomen in the evening.

Virgins do locating flight as young too, but not yet mate on their trips. You see it when you throw the Queen into air, and it goes at once into entrance like an arrow.

 

[Beefriendly]

So I'll put you down as 20C minimum mating flight temperature then?

 

[Finman]

So I'll put you down as 20C minimum mating flight temperature then?

Just do it. I do not mind. I know enough beekeeping that I get my queens to lay.


IT is not minimum. IT is temp where all queens will be mated on normal schedule. IT is good temp.

What I have seen, 18C is minimum.Once I had 10 queens. 2 of them mated in 18C and then it took 2 weeks that temps were good and all made flights and started to lay.

I cannot change weather and they do what they do.