Queen bee info.

[Erichalfbee]

What are the odds for an unmated late season queen to make it through the winter in a colony.... and get mated in the spring?

10000 :1 ?

Yeghes da

II then

 

[Beefriendly]

II then

If not mated within 21 days (give or take a day or so) they go "stale", the spermatheca can no longer accept sperm.
Huber discovered this around 1800 (the timing) ...apparently this news has not reached some parts of the SW UK yet.

 

[For want of a better word]

If not mated within 21 days (give or take a day or so) they go "stale", the spermatheca can no longer accept sperm.
Huber discovered this around 1800 (the timing) ...apparently this news has not reached some parts of the SW UK yet.

However ( despite the constant inane digs at the South West ) these may be extraordinary circumstances.... from which point in time of the new queen do you derive 21 days

Queens for AI need to be 22 days old at minimum to be mature enough ( from date of egg being laid( ie 16 + 6 = 22)

(Writing this because I would not wish new "queen rearers" to get confused by the usual nonsence cited by the less well read)

Yeghes da

 

[Erichalfbee]

If not mated within 21 days (give or take a day or so) they go "stale", the spermatheca can no longer accept sperm.
Huber discovered this around 1800 (the timing) ...apparently this news has not reached some parts of the SW UK yet.

How do you explain selfing?
I thought some bee breeders inseminated queens with their own drones?
I’m sure HM has mentioned it.

 

[Finman]

How do you explain selfing?
I thought some bee breeders inseminated queens with their own drones?
I’m sure HM has mentioned it.

They do not know that they are doing bad inbreeding problems.
.

 

[Beefriendly]

I thought some bee breeders inseminated queens with their own drones?

Yes, you are right, with II you do have an extended insemination period, but take up of sperm is poor and many of the eggs laid afterwards are still unfertilized (drones). (Mackensen, 1951).
Not a technique for generating good healthy colonies.

 

[For want of a better word]

Yes, you are right, with II you do have an extended insemination period, but take up of sperm is poor and many of the eggs laid afterwards are still unfertilized (drones). (Mackensen, 1951).
Not a technique for generating good healthy colonies.

B+ may argue that point of view.

Techniques have improved somewhat during the second half of the last century and all of this one.
We can now get the queen DNA* ( Full genome) in less than 24 hours using the latest ion torrent chips.
* and the drones

AI (II) is a very useful tool and we have many good productive and very healthy colonies with AI queens.

With the constant uncontrolled introgression of imported genetics, AI gives back some control... I think Brother Adam would have loved the possibilities!

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

B+ may argue that point of view.

Techniques have improved somewhat during the second half of the last century and all of this one.
We can now get the queen DNA* ( Full genome) in less than 24 hours using the latest ion torrent chips.
* and the drones

AI (II) is a very useful tool and we have many good productive and very healthy colonies with AI queens.

With the constant uncontrolled introgression of imported genetics, AI gives back some control... I think Brother Adam would have loved the possibilities!

I believe Br Adam used II too.

II is a useful tool in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, but, it's just a tool. If you don't have the pedigree and performance data to guide your work, you'd be wasting your time using II.

 

[For want of a better word]

I believe Br Adam used II too.

II is a useful tool in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, but, it's just a tool. If you don't have the pedigree and performance data to guide your work, you'd be wasting your time using II.

Meaning the DNA possibilities!......

Pedigree and performance data goes hand in hand with any bee breeding program.... AI cuts out some of the unknowns.

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

B+ may argue that point of view.

Hoppy, please read what I write, not what you think I wrote!!!
My post was about selfing, a technique that even the most hardy pedant would agree is not going to give you the healthiest colony.
Although I suspect you will.

 

[For want of a better word]

Hoppy, please read what I write, not what you think I wrote!!!
My post was about selfing, a technique that even the most hardy pedant would agree is not going to give you the healthiest colony.
Although I suspect you will.

Beefie my little North Eastern fiend....
I am not particularly interested in you incestuous activities, in beekeeping or otherwise.
Thank you very much

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

Meaning the DNA possibilities!......

It's easy to get carried away with theory. In the real world, control mated stock (using either II or island mating sites) will still just give you an expected breeding value for the progeny. You still have to test these to get the dispersion about the mean for each sibling group. Then you select those with high breeding values for the next generation and control mate the daughters. Its a cyclic process. There is lots of talk about "possibilities". The practice is somewhat different.

 

[B+.]

Queens for AI need to be 22 days old at minimum to be mature enough ( from date of egg being laid( ie 16 + 6 = 22)

(Writing this because I would not wish new "queen rearers" to get confused by the usual nonsence cited by the less well read)

Well, you confused me for a while too.
Most people would count the age of a queen from the date of emergence, because, she's not an adult until then.
A queen becomes sexually mature around 6 days post emergence and this generates a lot of excitement among the workers as they anticipate her mating flight(s). However, II is dependent upon coordinating the availability of both semen from preferred drones and maturity of the virgin queen. It is probably better to inseminate 8-10 days after emergence so you can be sure the queen is mature. Of course, this means the queen must be prevented from flying with an excluder over the entrance.

My apologies to the OP. This thread seems to have drifted somewhat.

 

[Beefriendly]

I am not particularly interested in you incestuous activities, in beekeeping or otherwise.

It was Erichalfbee who brought up the topic of self mating....perhaps you should go and practice it?

 

[For want of a better word]

Well, you confused me for a while too.
Most people would count the age of a queen from the date of emergence, because, she's not an adult until then.
A queen becomes sexually mature around 6 days post emergence and this generates a lot of excitement among the workers as they anticipate her mating flight(s). However, II is dependent upon coordinating the availability of both semen from preferred drones and maturity of the virgin queen. It is probably better to inseminate 8-10 days after emergence so you can be sure the queen is mature. Of course, this means the queen must be prevented from flying with an excluder over the entrance.

My apologies to the OP. This thread seems to have drifted somewhat.

What age would you say would be too old to inseminate 28 days from egg???

Or somewhat older??

Just museing over the improbabilities of a queen unmated in the open in late autumn surviving in a colony overwinter and getting out to mate in the spring.

Yeghes da

 

[For want of a better word]

It was Erichalfbee who brought up the topic of self mating....perhaps you should go and practice it?

Carry on in this vein and you will be joining Truble and Thymalus on the naughty step!



Nos da

 

[foghornleghorn]

It's easy to get carried away with theory. In the real world, control mated stock (using either II or island mating sites) will still just give you an expected breeding value for the progeny. You still have to test these to get the dispersion about the mean for each sibling group. Then you select those with high breeding values for the next generation and control mate the daughters. Its a cyclic process. There is lots of talk about "possibilities". The practice is somewhat different.

In the world of cattle breeding genomics was a big thing that was supposed to give accurate breeding values without testing. It isn't performing anywhere near as good as it was hyped up to. A lot of people going back to bulls with proven daughters

 

[For want of a better word]

In the world of cattle breeding genomics was a big thing that was supposed to give accurate breeding values without testing. It isn't performing anywhere near as good as it was hyped up to. A lot of people going back to bulls with proven daughters

That is what my Grandfather did... bred from his best bees ... in temper and honey produced..No pedigree line or even that much in record keeping.

Rare Breeds group said they were not interested in bees or rabbits and soil association do not advocate AI. Scientific methods do not seem to hold the answer it seems in producing better stock.

Yeghes da

 

[Hivemaker.]

I believe Br Adam used II too.

He did, in a nice box, I picked up his equipment from a shed at Buckfast abbey and posted it to the Netherlands.

 

[B+.]

In the world of cattle breeding genomics was a big thing that was supposed to give accurate breeding values without testing. It isn't performing anywhere near as good as it was hyped up to. A lot of people going back to bulls with proven daughters

Breeding values are "expected values" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value). There will always be variation around an expected value. That is basic statistics. So, you will always have to test to identify those scoring above the expected value. These are usually the animals you should breed from, but, you need to look at the coefficient of variation to see how homogeneous the sample is.