Queen balling

[tonyofarr]

I once had a queen balled by a colony when I was manipulating the hive next door, I could hear the noise that the bees were making and when I opened them up there was a large ball of bees with the queen dead in the middle.

I have noticed that some colonies are more likely to ball a queen than others, usually the more bad tempered ones, which is another reason I won't tolerate bad tempered bees no matter how productive they are.

If you are going to use a COT and want to wash it in washing soda you are better off taking it back to the house and doing it there; it needs to be rinsed well and dried before another use because the posca pens won't work properly through the cage otherwise.

 

[beeno]

-observe behaviour as you release her if in any doubt put her into a cage with fondant & shut the hive up, to slow her release.

That's exactly what I ended up doing on the one occasion I thought I try direct introduction. All seemed to be going swimmingly they were even feeding her then these two bees came along and started balling her and the atmosphere changed completely. Lesson learnt they can easily fool you!

 

[beeno]

Others have also said, stay put for a couple of minutes as the last thing she'll have seen is you, so may use you as a landmark when returning.

I think their GPS in the vicinity of the hive is much more sensitive than that from my observations.

 

[beeno]

Some beekeeping books are written by the inexperienced
Most are cut and paste from another, probably written in the last century
Take all read with a pinch of salt!

Critical thinking I like to try it for myself too!

 

[beeno]

I find with all stock - bees included most certainly, if you aren’t happy / confident / sure about what you’re doing they’ll sense this which then affects the outcome of what you’re trying to achieve. Please don’t take this as a criticism of yourself, just a life observation.
With regard to your own situation I’d certainly recommend a CoT (a good one not a crappy plastic thingy), work over an upturned roof using the smoker to clear bees of the encaptured queen. Good luck not that it will be needed

Your own stress levels may lead to heavy breathing, leading to increased carbon dioxide levels and jerky movements both of which alarm bees.

 

[elainemary]

I once had a queen balled by a colony when I was manipulating the hive next door, I could hear the noise that the bees were making and when I opened them up there was a large ball of bees with the queen dead in the middle.

I have noticed that some colonies are more likely to ball a queen than others, usually the more bad tempered ones, which is another reason I won't tolerate bad tempered bees no matter how productive they are.

If you are going to use a COT and want to wash it in washing soda you are better off taking it back to the house and doing it there; it needs to be rinsed well and dried before another use because the posca pens won't work properly through the cage otherwise.

Thanks, good tips!

 

[North End Bees]

Never lost one after marking either and never had one comatose.

I've never lost one but have had a few 'faint' on me.

 

[elainemary]

Listened to a good webinar on queen problems by David Tarpy this evening (Prof of entomology at North Carolina university).
I took the opportunity to ask him about queen balling & he confirmed there are various types of balling. The obvious one we’ve referred to is when the queen is seen as intruder / not recognised, so workers ball and sting / kill her.
Second type is when the queen is balled to protect her - maybe when she releases a pheromone that signals she’s frightened
Third type is due to a change in ‘attractiveness’. Example given was when there is more than one (virgin) queen in the hive and her attractiveness to the colony changes. Virgin queens try to spray their gut contents on other virgin queens as part of their ‘fighting’ tactics. If they achieve a direct ‘hit’ the gut contents are so attractive to workers (presumably pheromone driven) that huge numbers of workers ‘ball’ the queen, immobilising her. Results in the other virgin being able to sting her more easily when she’s released from the ball.
He confirmed overall there are different reasons for balling, mostly pheromone driven.
Fascinating stuff, so much we still need to learn about bee behaviour
Elaine

 

[ForageFlight]

A separate thread on queen marking has brought back my worst beekeeping experience ever - queen balling. Happened last year (2019) towards end of season when trying to catch a queen to mark. She was a young queen, dashed around the comb, should have left her. Resulted in bees balling her. Tried to save her by pulling off bees, she was slightly moving so put her in a cage with a couple of workers but she was dead the next day. She was a nice sized queen from an otherwise v gentle colony & lost that line. Gutted, had to unite to another colony as too late to replace her. Lots of learning from that incident including don’t try to mark or clip towards the end of the season.

Have subsequently tried to find out more about balling causes, what triggers biologically & why. Very little knowledge about it but read in one paper about pheromones, that it’s probably caused by a pheromone the queen releases when she’s frightened, the bees then don’t recognise her as their queen, resulting in balling.

Have you had any balling incidents and what do you do when you see it happening? Keen to learn more



Next time you mark a Queen cage her for half an hour at the top of the hive away from the feed hole. the bees will be in panic state then and will be glad they have found her and you can open the cage over the feed hole and let her walk down. if you are not sure they will accept her wait for another half an hour If you see the bees running round the entrance searching for her It will be the right time to place her back in.
I have had the same problem over the years. It my body smells interferes with the feromons of the queen. One year i decided to mark all my queens and 3 or 4 colonies balled their queens so I stopped marking them. Spring is a bad time of the year for balling. British natives are are very sensetive to any interferanc with their queens I hope this helps in the future. Regards John Owen

 

[Antipodes]

Listened to a good webinar on queen problems by David Tarpy this evening (Prof of entomology at North Carolina university).
I took the opportunity to ask him about queen balling & he confirmed there are various types of balling. The obvious one we’ve referred to is when the queen is seen as intruder / not recognised, so workers ball and sting / kill her.
Second type is when the queen is balled to protect her - maybe when she releases a pheromone that signals she’s frightened
Third type is due to a change in ‘attractiveness’. Example given was when there is more than one (virgin) queen in the hive and her attractiveness to the colony changes. Virgin queens try to spray their gut contents on other virgin queens as part of their ‘fighting’ tactics. If they achieve a direct ‘hit’ the gut contents are so attractive to workers (presumably pheromone driven) that huge numbers of workers ‘ball’ the queen, immobilising her. Results in the other virgin being able to sting her more easily when she’s released from the ball.
He confirmed overall there are different reasons for balling, mostly pheromone driven.
Fascinating stuff, so much we still need to learn about bee behaviour
Elaine

Last week I witnessed some protective balling and I recognised it as such due to reading about it somewhere ..here perhaps... just a day or so earlier. I closed the lid up quickly. A few days later the queen was still very much alive.

 

[elainemary]

Thanks John, that's very interesting and has totally reinforced my conclusions about queen clipping especially. I intent to do exactly as you've suggested when clipping my queens this year. Much appreciated
Elaine