Queen Ancestry

[Wilco]

I think you fail to understand genetics.

Queen has two sets of chromosomes. Each egg has one set of chromosomes in it. So for every unfertilised egg, it contains 50% of the Queen's DNA.

Every individual drone come from an unfertilised egg so all of their DNA comes from a single queen.

Every individual worker and daughter Queen comes from a separate fertilised egg thus 50% of DNA from the Queen and 50% from one of the drones she mated with.

Thus 50% of the DNA is from one Queen and 50% from another, single, Queen.

It is physically impossible not to have 50% of DNA from one Q and 50% from another. The only difference is as above as @Erichalfbee referenced, if you II a DLQ with semen from drones from that Q. Which is uncommon in II circles and won't happen naturally.

Why this is useful: if you buy a virgin queen of known docile lineage or other favoured traits, even if she mates with drones which lead to 'evil' workers, her drones will be from her good lineage so useful for drone flooding/mating from. However, daughters from her will be a gamble so use a colony with docile/favoured trait workers for queen rearing.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Every individual drone come from an unfertilised egg so all of their DNA comes from a single queen.

Spot on. Maybe sometimes people forget that drones come from unfertilised eggs. Hence drones have a grandfather but not a father

 

[abeille]

I think you fail to understand genetics.

Queen has two sets of chromosomes. Each egg has one set of chromosomes in it. So for every unfertilised egg, it contains 50% of the Queen's DNA.

Every individual drone come from an unfertilised egg so all of their DNA comes from a single queen.

Every individual worker and daughter Queen comes from a separate fertilised egg thus 50% of DNA from the Queen and 50% from one of the drones she mated with.

Thus 50% of the DNA is from one Queen and 50% from another, single, Queen.

It is physically impossible not to have 50% of DNA from one Q and 50% from another. The only difference is as above as @Erichalfbee referenced, if you II a DLQ with semen from drones from that Q. Which is uncommon in II circles and won't happen naturally.

Why this is useful: if you buy a virgin queen of known docile lineage or other favoured traits, even if she mates with drones which lead to 'evil' workers, her drones will be from her good lineage so useful for drone flooding/mating from. However, daughters from her will be a gamble so use a colony with docile/favoured trait workers for queen rearing.

No, I understand genetics very well, being a geneticist for nearly 40 years.
What you and the poster mean to say is the queen produced is made from 50% queen and 50% drone.
Unless you can explain how two queens can mate?

 

[Wilco]

No, I understand genetics very well, being a geneticist for nearly 40 years.
What you and the poster mean to say is the queen produced is made from 50% queen and 50% drone.
Unless you can explain how two queens can mate?

I suggest you reread my posts and the OP's and stop trying to win points on something you're wrong on.

 

[Erichalfbee]

No, I understand genetics very well, being a geneticist for nearly 40 years.
What you and the poster mean to say is the queen produced is made from 50% queen and 50% drone.
Unless you can explain how two queens can mate?

Because the drones genes are entirely those of his mother. He does not have a father. He is a proxy queen as far as genes are concerned. Please read @Wilco post again

 

[fian]

Because the drones genes are entirely those of his mother. He does not have a father. He is a proxy queen as far as genes are concerned. Please read @Wilco post again

Rather, they are a version since a queen has 32 chromosomes and 2 allelic varieties for the same gene while a drone has 16 chromosomes and a single allele for each gene.

 

[abeille]

Because the drones genes are entirely those of his mother. He does not have a father. He is a proxy queen as far as genes are concerned. Please read @Wilco post again

Glad you agree that it is the drones genes

 

[abeille]

Rather, they are a version since a queen has 32 chromosomes and 2 allelic varieties for the same gene while a drone has 16 chromosomes and a single allele for each gene.

100% correct

 

[abeille]

I suggest you reread my posts and the OP's and stop trying to win points on something you're wrong on.

Apologies.
Here was me thinking we were talking science in genetics, which require accuracy.
Good luck getting two queens to mate.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Good luck getting two queens to mate.

That is not what we are talking about.

 

[abeille]

That is not what we are talking about.

That is what was quoted

 

[SWEET]

Every individual worker and daughter Queen comes from a separate fertilised egg thus 50% of DNA from the Queen and 50% from one of the drones she mated with.

50% from the queen and 100% from the drone (half the chromosomes) 16+16.

 

[wightbees]

I have jumped on the end of this conversation but thought I would add the fact that people need to understand chromosomes. The Queen as a Virgin only has 16 chromosomes the other 16 come from a Drone who only has 16 .This results in the Mated Q then having the full 32 Chromosomes. This is how it’s possible to control the DNA that is being referenced by some.
As each Drone from one Q is identical to each brother Drone there DNA is identical.
It’s the same with Sister Q too , that are Virgins.
It’s only once the Q gets sperm from a Drone that she then gets the other 50% DNA or 16 Chromosomes.
Please correct me if I’m wrong and I will check my books on the topic as I have studied this a lot due to II which I never got round too.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Nope.
Queens, virgin or not have 32 chromosomes, as do workers.

 

[wightbees]

Females, workers and queens have 32, 16 are contributed by the queen's eggs and 16 come from the drones sperm

Quote

http://www.glenn-apiaries.com/principles.html

 

[wightbees]

Females, workers and queens have 32, 16 are contributed by the queen's eggs and 16 come from the drones sperm

Quote

http://www.glenn-apiaries.com/principles.html

Long time since I read this but you get the idea

 

[masterBK]

I was under the impression that because reduction division occurs in producing the egg plus because cross over can also occur (exchanges of portions of chromosomes between homologous pairs) the resulting drones while possessing only genes inherited from the queen will still be genotypically and phenotypically varied in many ways from each other ie not with identical DNA as suggested by "Wightbees".

 

[wightbees]

You could be right, it’s been 9 years since I read up on it all. I can see where I got myself confused with egg sperm and actual Queen though. Think I will call it a day whilst I’m not to beaten

 

[Erichalfbee]

I was under the impression that because reduction division occurs in producing the egg plus because cross over can also occur (exchanges of portions of chromosomes between homologous pairs) the resulting drones while possessing only genes inherited from the queen will still be genotypically and phenotypically varied in many ways from each other ie not with identical DNA as suggested by "Wightbees".

My basic university genetics agrees with you.

 

[SWEET]

I was under the impression that because reduction division occurs in producing the egg plus because cross over can also occur (exchanges of portions of chromosomes between homologous pairs) the resulting drones while possessing only genes inherited from the queen will still be genotypically and phenotypically varied in many ways from each other ie not with identical DNA as suggested by "Wightbees".

Yes, each drone receives a random mix of 16 from the queen's 32 which are then combined with the drone's sperm set of 16 (giving 32 for virgins/workers etc). All the drones she creates will differ, but only between themselves (not outside of the queens data set of 32).