Quality of Mann Lake flat-packs

[ugcheleuce]

Hello everyone

I'm considering buying twenty British National supers from Mann Lake UK, but I would like to hear some comments about the likely quality that I'm going to get, since I won't be able to return them cheaply. Have any of you ever bought these flat-pack hives from Mann Lake, and can you tell me anything about the relative quality of it?

They're having a bit of sale on at the moment (GBP 10 per super):
http://www.mannlake.co.uk/beekeeping-supplies/product/NA-607.html
[Even with the shipping cost of GBP 30, this is the cheapest factory-made hives that I can lay my hands on.]

Their wood is called "Cedar" but I'm not sure which wood that is. On the order page it just says "Cedar" but on the web site's front cover it advertises the sale items as using Western Red Cedar, which I assume is the Canadian variant.

I can make my own hives from Sessile Oak for 2/3 of the price of Mann Lake's flat-pack hives (or from Douglas Fir for 1/2 the price), but they will be of "home-made" quality, and it'll be a fairly time-consuming project for me. The cheapest factory-made supers that I can buy locally are polys, at GBP 17 each. The cheapest wooden supers locally (made from Norwegian Spruce) clock in at GBP 25 each.

What are your thoughts?

Samuel

 

[B+.]

Hello everyone

I'm considering buying twenty British National supers from Mann Lake UK, but I would like to hear some comments about the likely quality that I'm going to get, since I won't be able to return them cheaply. Have any of you ever bought these flat-pack hives from Mann Lake, and can you tell me anything about the relative quality of it?

Hi Samuel

There was quite a lot of discussion about this last year. From the few that I saw, the quality was exceedingly poor and they did not even conform the the "National" standard. I would not recommend them at any price based on what I saw

 

[madasafish]

I bought Lang supers and brood in pine . Assembled fine. Cannot be beaten for price. I painted with Ronseal 5 year woodstain.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The latest from MBC they are basically a poor equivalent of 'second quality' from big T's or Maisie's. I saw some in the convention last year and was not at all impressed

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=520648#post520648

 

[Hivemaker.]

This is a post on here about them yesterday.

Thorne seconds is ok for its money but if you want to save more, without losing any quality, then I'd recommend Mannlake UK hives and boxes everytime, because when seen side by side, Mannlake's UK traditional cedar national stuff stands out as better quality compared to the Thornes seconds we've bought and got in stock - and normally Mannlake is so much cheap plus now they also have a sale on - so it's win win.

Since buying Mannlake UK national boxes ( we are only a retail customer of theirs and only pay website prices), we no longer build our own national hives - it's just not worth it.

Their delivery is also much quicker than Thornes as well - from past and recent experience.

 

[Finman]

.

spruce is not good material to outdoor surfaces. IT should ne pine. I have 50 years old pine supers and they are like new. Self made.
.

 

[Cussword]

Hi Samuel

They did not even conform the the "National" standard.

I think the type that you mean is their "national hybrid".

They do sell national boxes too.

 

[B+.]

I think the type that you mean is their "national hybrid".

They do sell national boxes too.

Yes. I believe so.
A beginner I was helping last year ordered some against my advice and they were completely useless. None of her frames fitted.

 

[REDWOOD]

One of the supers in my avatar is from Mann, can you tell which one it is.
I will just buy whatever is the cheapest at the time it is required, if Its faulty or not fit for purpose then all hell breaks out.

 

[bjosephd]

I got pine Langs from them last year, and they were just dandy... but of course being pine need a lick of paint or wotnot.

Their national boxes at £12 for cedar or £9 for pine are such amazing value that I wonder how bad they would really have to be to want to pay £40+ instead! The cedar national boxes I got for my first ever hive from another maker (I won't say who), that were not cheap, I have to put duct tape around the join when the weather is bad because they don't fit flush together! And the maker simply didn't give a monkey's!

Mann Lake prices have actually made beekeeping for me possible, and I always find them chatty and patient on the phone... if you aren't sure about something just give them a call and grill them in the politest possible way... this is what I actually do with anyone I spend money with.

However, their National Hybrid I find somewhat absurd! It makes no sense to me... if you're going to change the format of your brood box but still want it to fit your national floors, roofs, and supers, then just get yourself nice big commercial brood boxes!

Get clicking on the actual products on their website... I've just discovered their sale is more substantial than they are making out it to be... looks like pretty much every product!

B

 

[ugcheleuce]

...and they did not even conform the the "National" standard.

Mann Lake sells two hive types that include the word "National" in the name, namely the British National and the National Hybrid. The National Hybrid is a Langstroth hive with the same external dimensions as the British National. The NH frames have shorter lugs and the frames are somewhat taller than BN.

So I can understand that people may buy "National" hives from Mann Lake, not realising that they're National Hybrids instead of British Nationals.

Similar things happen when Belgians buy Dutch hives/frames and vice versa (both counties call their hives by exactly the same name); this was also discussed on this forum previously.

The latest from MBC they are basically a poor equivalent of 'second quality' from big T's or Maisie's.

Yes, but I can't find these elusive "second quality" hives anywhere on T's and Maisies' web sites -- can you tell me how to get to them? I would be interested to see what they cost, compared to Mann Lake's hives.

Spruce is not good material to outdoor surfaces. It should be pine. I have 50 years old pine supers and they are like new. Self-made.

Yes, here in the Netherlands, shop-sold hives are usually either made from Norwegian Spruce or Western Red Cedar (and occasionally platonised Aspen). Hobby hive makers (who sell their hives on ebay type sites) often use Norwegian spruce or Douglas fir.

I've never seen oak hives, so I'm not 100% sure if making hives in Sessile Oak is a good or bad idea.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes, but I can't find these elusive "second quality" hives anywhere on T's and Maisies' web sites -- can you tell me how to get to them? I would be interested to see what they cost, compared to Mann Lake's hives.

They only sell them during their sales apart from as budget hive kits.
They're there now in the 'show specials' sales sections - you've missed the boat for mail order sales though (November for Maisemores and end of January for Thornes) at the moment Maisemores are selling their supers for £11.50 each and Thornes for £12.00 (far superior than the ML product IMHO) but for collection only at one of the conventions in the next few months.

 

[buckwyns]

I have had their supers and have found no problem with them at all, especially for the price.

 

[mbc]

They only sell them during their sales apart from as budget hive kits.
They're there now in the 'show specials' sales sections - you've missed the boat for mail order sales though (November for Maisemores and end of January for Thornes) at the moment Maisemores are selling their supers for £11.50 each and Thornes for £12.00 (far superior than the ML product IMHO) but for collection only at one of the conventions in the next few months.

Quite so, but if you're buying a few then its sensible taking the price advertised on a web site as a starting point for further discussion, all suppliers will bend a bit if you chat to them on the phone and ask for the best price when spending hundreds of pounds.
Its also worth getting to know them personally so you, and they, know who's talking, maisies for instance are a family firm who always seem prepared to take the time for a good chat with a returning customer, it makes for pleasanter business IMHO.

 

[Cussword]

Mann Lake sells two hive types that include the word "National" in the name, namely the British National and the National Hybrid.

I just said that

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Its also worth getting to know them personally so you, and they, know who's talking, maisies for instance are a family firm who always seem prepared to take the time for a good chat with a returning customer, it makes for pleasanter business IMHO.

but Eric can be a miserable bugger at times and it does get a bit embarrassing when they wave and greet you when you walk into the trade hall and SWMBO wants to know how they know you so well

 

[mbc]

..... embarrassing when they wave and greet you when you walk into the trade hall and SWMBO wants to know how they know you so well

Lol

 

[MikeT]

Over the last 2 years I have bought national boxes from Thorne, Maisy, Mann Lake, and from Ebay. In my opinion M&L are by far the best and the cheapest, followed by Ts 2nds then Maisy. The Chinese ones off the net were very poor with bowed parts which had to be screwed together to get a good fit.

I would prefer to buy British but M&L are so well priced I have bought my last lot from them, I am now waiting for a delivery from them.

Mike

 

[deanrpwaacs]

Just received my order from Ts . Supers look ok but the manley frame ends are all some kind of dark wood . Going to look odd but im sure the bees wont mind .

 

[Tremyfro]

I don't usually buy wooden hives...as I prefer Polys. I recently bought a pine langstroth for my Flow Hive project....as spares in case of swarm control was needed. When it arrived one of the brood boxes wouldn't go together square at all. OH said one of the long sides was warped. I called Mannlake...sent a photo...they sent me a new brood box....which went together really well except one side had a split in it...so another phone call....and the part arrived next day. Excellent service and very friendly and helpful. Can't fault them. It was just unlucky that one part was warped. I would deal with them again.
I can't say that I would buy more wooden hives...simply because I would then have to buy insulation for the winter...which adds to the total cost of the hive. Or move them into polys for the winter. Some people just prefer the look of a wooden hive...which I can understand.