(Sale) Prices / Frames etc...

[boywonder]

Maybe it's just where my head is ... but I am a little underwhelmed by what I have seen in the Thornes sale. I did umm and ahh about fully assembled (2nd quality) national supers at £15, but they have gone now. Bummer.

Otherwise, the main reason for looking was frames. I have previously (only) used Thornes 2nd quality frames, and have found them to be exeptionally good. I need about 40 14x12 frames for the upcomoing season.

At £39 for 50 ... all good - especially when you consider that the full price equivalent for 50 1st quality frames would be £104.50 (£20.90 x 5).

Incidentally, Paynes frames (1sts) are more expensive still, at £22.98 for 10.

However, Abelo sell their 10-packs of 14x12 1st quality frames for only £12. At the moment they also have 10% off ... which means that, with shipping (where I find Thornes to be ridiculously expensive), I could probably pick up 40 Abelo 1st quality frames for the same price as the 50 Thornes 2nds.

Why is Abelo so much cheaper than the others? Has anyone got any experience (good or bad) with Abelo frames?

I hate the way that - especially when you are in the market for a specific beekeeping item, and hunt around - there can be such a significant price differential. Thats why I buy my out-apiary hives now from Caddon Hives (their £154.00 - for an (IMO) superb quality 14x12 hive - plays Thornes £218.50), for example. On the occasion I want to pay more for a super-quality product (e.g. my garden hives, which I buy from Peak Hives), then there are also other/better places to go.

Basically, a) are we getting ripped-off by the big boys? and b) any feedback on the Abelo frames?

Cheers.

Sent from my Google Pixelbook using Tapatalk

 

[Into the lions den]

Old song....repeated many times.

UK prices are reasonable.....given the nature of the market they serve.

The problem is the beekeepers. The UK is almost unique in the huge number of types and variants on types that beekeepers prefer and believe in almost religiously. Means the UK suppliers have to do tiny...sometimes miniscule...runs of gear and keep a vast and complex inventory. That all cost serious money.

Nothing wrong with Abelo frames..or Thornes...but they are UK pattern which is generally quite weak and has fiddly parts.

At ANY of the quoted prices I would not be in bees at all.................other than as a small hobby. Its amazing the prices you can find if you spread your net and don't look for furniture grade or perfect cedar (the bees don't mind).

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I know a few bee farmers who have tried the Abelo frames and report good quality, I do not use my self and stick to the big T (just purchased 500) as I had an issue a few years back buying foundation from another company and it would not fit, I had to trim every piece, now get frames in sales and wax from Wynne's.

 

[GuyNir]

Maisemore sale starts 2nd Jan, 14x12 (50) would be £40.50. I’m using their frames and really happy with the quality.

 

[GuyNir]

The problem is the beekeepers. The UK is almost unique in the huge number of types and variants on types that beekeepers prefer and believe in almost religiously. Means the UK suppliers have to do tiny...sometimes miniscule...runs of gear and keep a vast and complex inventory. That all cost serious money.

Spot on. I’m amazed every time I look at frames and see the huge selection...

 

[Hivemaker.]

Looking at the prices makes me glad we manufacture all our own frames and have done right from the start, could never of afforded to build up the numbers with the cost of frames...or the hives come to that.

 

[Madge]

... Nothing wrong with Abelo frames..or Thornes...but they are UK pattern which is generally quite weak and has fiddly parts. ...

ITTLD, I can see differences in design between National frames (long lugs and side grooves) and Langstroth frames (short lugs and no side grooves) - but I don’t understand how UK frame patterns differ from those of other countries to make them generally weak and with fiddly parts.

What are their weaknesses and fiddly parts?

 

[Wingy]

ITTLD, I can see differences in design between National frames (long lugs and side grooves) and Langstroth frames (short lugs and no side grooves) - but I don’t understand how UK frame patterns differ from those of other countries to make them generally weak and with fiddly parts.

Ha Ha, differences in frames I learned this recently, being relatively new to bee keeping I went for Langstroth and stuck with it. I now have frames from 3 different suppliers and all 3 are different - main issue is thickness of the frame lugs which affects bee top / bottom bee space.
Dread to think what’s out there when you start to bring all the different hives into the equation

 

[Madge]

...

Dread to think what’s out there when you start to bring all the different hives into the equation

I’m not asking about design differences to fit different types of hives - but general structural differences between UK and non-UK frames.

 

[Jimmy]

I’m not asking about design differences to fit different types of hives - but general structural differences between UK and non-UK frames.

If you're on Twitter, look at ITLD'S account @calluna4u.
He's recently (might be back in November) put up some photos of the how he modified the national frame design to make it stronger.

 

[Millet]

any feedback on the Abelo frames?

Cheers.

Sent from my Google Pixelbook using Tapatalk

I bought 50 national super and 50 brood frames last year.. this year i bought 100 brood frames and 60 super frames all from Abelo.. also the wax foundation to fill all of these frames..all these frames have been assembled and there is not a bad one among them..Abelo is all i will use from now on the service and communication is second to none..

 

[simonforeman]

I bought 50 DN4 and 50 SN4 frames from maismore earlier in their sale. These were 2nds and were far superior to some 1st grades I bought at the start of my beekeeping from 2 other suppliers. Fit together well and barely any knots in them.

 

[Into the lions den]

ITTLD, I can see differences in design between National frames (long lugs and side grooves) and Langstroth frames (short lugs and no side grooves) - but I don’t understand how UK frame patterns differ from those of other countries to make them generally weak and with fiddly parts.

What are their weaknesses and fiddly parts?

Too thin in the neck where the side bar engages with the top bar is the worst bit, makes them vulnerable to breaking.

Also those tiny skinny bottom bars and the cut outs on the bottom of the side bars are another point of real weakness.

At all times though, you have to bear in mind I come at this from a different perspective than most....we do not have infinite time to handle everything with kid gloves and to be gentle with everything all of the time. British frames...and we prefer deeps....when full of honey are quite heavy. All that is carried through a very skinny neck with a right angle in it too. Add in rapid handling and weaknesses show up. Attrition rate with us in normal British frames is significant, with our modified pattern close to zero. Meeting frames with a broken lug in the field is annoying and a PITA.

But JUST for BS (and double the number of variants to include Smiths)

SN1
SN4 (but two spacing variants on the Hoffman end bars)
SN5 (ditto)
SN7
So 6 variants...just on standard frames

Then the same again on deeps (no DN7)

so you have 11 standard variants (is that an oxymoron?)

Then the plethora of preferred variants on top of that such as jumbos, or in our case now, grooved only top bars with special necks, ungrooved side bars drilled for wiring with neck area altered to fit the top bars, and solid one piece bottom bars...........which in turn means a special foundation size.

Now that is just for National/Smith/WBC.

Then add in all the same variants again for Commercials, 14 x 12, Langstroth, Dadant (and Dadant Blatt), and heaven knows what other little favourites are out there. I even know one guy using Danish Lavnormals.

Must give UK makers nightmares. Its so costly for them to meet everyone's needs...I think they earn every penny. If you ever ask them too....its the smallest customers that are often the hardest work.....

 

[mbc]

our modified pattern close to zero.

Any chance of details for those of us who don't tweet please.

 

[For want of a better word]

Nobody mentioned Manley frames... used for cut comb with Maisies thin foundation.... best in castellated boxes OMHO

 

[deemann1]

I got myself 300 frames from big Ts ,I got some frames from another supplier during the summer I was not happy with them at all

 

[GuyNir]

I got myself 300 frames from big Ts ,I got some frames from another supplier during the summer I was not happy with them at all

Which another supplier? What was the problem?

 

[Into the lions den]

Nobody mentioned Manley frames... used for cut comb with Maisies thin foundation.... best in castellated boxes OMHO

That's the SN7 I mentioned. However. most who use castellations for spacing go for very simple frames...SN1 essentially or similar.

Never use castellations ourselves. Manley spacing makes too fat a comb for the 200g target weight most used in the trade now.....but was OK for the half pound. We do all our cut comb from deep frames, mostly Langstroth, and if well filled you get 14 pieces and a small amount of offcuts.

 

[deemann1]

Which another supplier? What was the problem?

The little strip of wood that you nail on the top bar to hold the wax in was terrible thin on them all less than half the width they should be , couldn't nail them without cracking so I made new ones myself.

 

[For want of a better word]

The little strip of wood that you nail on the top bar to hold the wax in was terrible thin on them all less than half the width they should be , couldn't nail them without cracking so I made new ones myself.

Them is called wedges..... and I used to call them the little strips of wood that you nail on to the top bar to hold the wax in!

My Manley frames are for supers... and some are for brood... no idea where they came from... I have a tendancy to buy "bargains" at the shows... and then wonder why!.. what is the number for them? can not be DN7 shirley???
( Nest stop Dave Cushmans's pages!)