Put MAQ's on last night

[thebhoy]

Put MAQ's on 3 hives last night.........was a bit of a shocker this morning seeing a lot of dead /dying young bees on landing board of one colony and with the other colonies also having a high number outside and on the ground.

Also noted them throwing out drones / stopping them entering.

Will be an interesting if somewhat nervous week to see how it pans out.

Also discovered it's not a good idea to check them barefoot as there were a lot in the grass one bigger big toe and one swollen sole

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Put MAQ's on 3 hives last night.........was a bit of a shocker this morning seeing a lot of dead /dying young bees on landing board of one colony and with the other colonies also having a high number outside and on the ground.

Also noted them throwing out drones / stopping them entering.

Will be an interesting if somewhat nervous week to see how it pans out.

Also discovered it's not a good idea to check them barefoot as there were a lot in the grass one bigger big toe and one swollen sole

Will be interesting to see your results i'm going tomorrow morning to take of the inspection board as its 90% closed at the moment, then treatment comes off on Friday evening.

 

[enrico]

Keep is in touch, mine are on order!

 

[greengumbo]

I did one hive with MAQS a few weeks back to try it out. Pretty shocked at first with the pile of corpses out the front. Checked after the 7 days and no sign of queen or new brood. Left alone for another week and queen laying like the clappers and no varroa drop since

I did a second hive last night that was on double lang brood plus supers and even more bees dead out the front this morning. Even though I know its prob okay I still have that nervous feeling ! Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[flemage]

I would be interested too.

But I have to say that I used Hive Makers thymol treatment last year and it really did the business and my varroa numbers are still low this year, I experienced DWV and every thing last year. So I will wait till the supers are off and use this again this year.

 

[thebhoy]

Another worrying thing this morning was the number of wasps attacking the bees...killed four wasps in a couple of minutes. But with all hives entrances fully open and bees coming to terms with the treatment they appear a little more vulnerable.

The joys of having hives in the garden.......you see it all and feel like you should be standing guard over them to protect them.

 

[thebhoy]

home this evening and dead bees cleared from landing boards through day.
Not a lot of activity by way of flyers coming or going from the hives....although my biggest one has some pollen coming in.
Two poly hives ..... bees are well back from the entrance and quite quick to attack anything coming close to entrance but wasps are trying to get in / attack each hive.
Loads of dead and dying bees on grass and seen a few being pulled out to be dumped.......
Really do hope this helps the colonies go into winter well with minimum mite count but still worrying about the hit they have / are taking.

Roll on next Tuesday so I can get back into them.

 

[Tom Bick]

Put MAQ's on 3 hives last night.........was a bit of a shocker this morning seeing a lot of dead /dying young bees on landing board of one colony and with the other colonies also having a high number outside and on the ground.

Can you tell if they are young or just the old about to die bees?

 

[thebhoy]

Hi Tom,

looked like a lot of young bees....nursing ones..small.. that were on the landing boards...have seen some grubs tonight
Also a quite a few drones and a lot of adult /older bees on the grass.

Hopefully it will all be ok from now to end of treatment period with colonies picking up again but will keep everyone posted.

 

[Tom Bick]

Thanks

 

[Toffeesmum]

Keep is in touch, mine are on order!

AND mine!!!

 

[stephenpug]

i did mine a few weeks ago and was frightened to death with all the dead bees but after a couple of weeks the hives get very strong so i will deff use again i was very impressed

 

[thebhoy]

Well second morning after putting on treatment......two poly hives very subdued...one with more dead bees and grubs on landing board the other with a few.

Now under attack from wasps.

Not a lot of flying bees coming or going

Biggest hive...no landing board and wood....this is clearing out dead bees, flying out with them ...not a great many flyers from what is a double BB 14 x 12...again a lot of dead /dying on ground in front.

Seriously considered taking them off as at this rate the colonies are losing so many bees that I am worried about having any left...do realise from the various reports that this is not unusual.
The constant wasp attacks add to it as have to have entrance fully open so can't reduce the opening.

 

[thebhoy]

Couldn't take it any more......wasps going into the hives and fearing the worst, I suited up and opened them.....

First poly with the most dead bees and grubs...lifted off the super and was met with seams of bees.....all ok...plenty there put a sheet of glass in front of entrance to try and stop wasps getting in.

Second poly .... lifted off roof and could see a wasp on capped honey frame, managed to kill it, took off super and checked a few frames....ok, bees ok. Put a sheet of plastic in front of entrance and reduced the entrance.

Largest hive...double BB and 4 supers....wasps going in to one side of entrance....but bees flying out with dead /dying bees...more activity than the others.....just reduced the entrance down from the side the wasps were getting in.

Fumes weren't as bad today......

Feel a lot better about it having seen so many 'live' bees ..... will have to wait till next week to check for queens and eggs etc.

 

[pargyle]

So ... what does everyone think ? Is it the fumes that are killing weak bees ? Is it the bees who stray too near to the strips that just get asphyxiated ? Or is it tracheal mites that are being killed on bees that then clog up their airways and suffocate them - I know that Formic knocks these down as well as the varroa ?

Despite the fact that the evidence points towards the hive being stronger after treatment I really do worry about whether the amount of dead bees is telling us something about the strength of the stuff ... it cannot be right.

To the people who have used it ...did you check your varroa level before treatment and what sort of mite kill did you get during the treatment ?

 

[greengumbo]

So ... what does everyone think ? Is it the fumes that are killing weak bees ? Is it the bees who stray too near to the strips that just get asphyxiated ? Or is it tracheal mites that are being killed on bees that then clog up their airways and suffocate them - I know that Formic knocks these down as well as the varroa ?

Despite the fact that the evidence points towards the hive being stronger after treatment I really do worry about whether the amount of dead bees is telling us something about the strength of the stuff ... it cannot be right.

To the people who have used it ...did you check your varroa level before treatment and what sort of mite kill did you get during the treatment ?

I swept the dead bees away last night and there were actually less than I thought and the bees still in the hive were quick to spill out and attack my brush !!

If you do the sums a couple of hundred or even more bees dead is still a tiny proportion of a colony - especially one of the size thebhoy is talking about. Mine is a double lang with supers and I lost maybe 200 bees first 24h and then about 50 were out front this morning. I was getting a Varroa drop of about 15 a day and had over 300 drop the first 24h after treatment. Say a double BB hive has about 40000 bees then its only 1 or 2% of bees you are losing plus the queen going off lay for 4 or 5 days. Many of the bees in my "dead pile" were adults that may have been nearing the end anyway. I would happily trade that die off for Varroa control. It is definitely worrying to see the dead and dying out the front but in the grand scheme it is not a big number.

The weaker hive I had treated a while ago is booming with no Varroa drop since. Previously it was about 15 - 20 a day.

Formic acid is strong stuff and it will effect weak bees more, including the young and old and diseased....but if the overall effect is to eradicate or severely reduce Varroa at this crucial time of year then I am okay with that.

 

[drstitson]

another way to look at it is that a few hundred is a lot less than the potential "losses" of an alternative, queen trapping/brood blocking - where you get no new brood for 3 weeks or so.

 

[pargyle]

I swept the dead bees away last night and there were actually less than I thought and the bees still in the hive were quick to spill out and attack my brush !!

If you do the sums a couple of hundred or even more bees dead is still a tiny proportion of a colony - especially one of the size thebhoy is talking about. Mine is a double lang with supers and I lost maybe 200 bees first 24h and then about 50 were out front this morning. I was getting a Varroa drop of about 15 a day and had over 300 drop the first 24h after treatment. Say a double BB hive has about 40000 bees then its only 1 or 2% of bees you are losing plus the queen going off lay for 4 or 5 days. Many of the bees in my "dead pile" were adults that may have been nearing the end anyway. I would happily trade that die off for Varroa control. It is definitely worrying to see the dead and dying out the front but in the grand scheme it is not a big number.

The weaker hive I had treated a while ago is booming with no Varroa drop since. Previously it was about 15 - 20 a day.

Formic acid is strong stuff and it will effect weak bees more, including the young and old and diseased....but if the overall effect is to eradicate or severely reduce Varroa at this crucial time of year then I am okay with that.

It's reassuring that actually, in percentage terms, the losses are not as significant as the previous posts would suggest. Also, with a daily drop of 15+ mites you really are into a significant infestation and there's no argument from me that treatment is required.

As a relatively 'natural' treatment (Whilst it is clearly vile stuff for the bees to suffer !) I can equate that to treating my kids when they were little for head lice - they hated that as well !! At present I don't have any Varroa drop at all from my hive but I don't live in a dream where this situation lasts forever and if treatment becomes necessary it's good to know that MAQS appears to be working. Without the attendant problems of queens being killed.

 

[thebhoy]

Hi Pargyle,

a few points of note...still early days in the treatment schedule though.

1) monitoring board is removed during treatment to aid air flow....may have been a good idea to have laid this on the ground directly under the hive to get a better idea of mite drop. This may be a good pointer for anyone planning to do this treatment in the future.

2) Of my two poly hives.....one had no brood (recently emerged queen) and fewer nurse / house bees due to time since last brood emerged. whilst the other was in full laying capacity. Both had one super.

3) The hive with no brood and fewer house bees (more adult bees) showed much fewer bee deaths .... approximately 10% of the volume of the other hive (visual guestimate)

4) The hive with most losses.....again visual ...... the higher percentage of these were young nurse /housebees ...smaller bees rather than older and larger bees approximately 75%

5) Every hive showed a loss of drones and these being thrown out blocked from getting into the hive.

6) Each hive has fewer bees flying currently....this caused me to open the hive fearing they had been wiped out....not the case though.

7) With requirement to keep entrances fully open during treatment....and bees in a somewhat less active state....this leaves even the strongest hive open for wasps to get in and, as seen, up into the supers.

Perhaps having them in the garden rather than an out apiary adds to the stress as it is possible to see so much on an hour by hour / day by day basis ... thankfully I am at work during the day, but still see early morning and late afternoon with family at home to say what they have seen during day.

Many lessons to be learned from this and will be good to pull information / feedback from other members experiences to help 'prepare' those thinking of using these themselves.

A lot more realaxed about the 'state' of the colonies after opening this morning and seeing seams of bees.
Just need to deal with the wasp issue next and wait till end of treatment period.

 

[pargyle]

Hi Pargyle,

a few points of note...still early days in the treatment schedule though.

Many lessons to be learned from this and will be good to pull information / feedback from other members experiences to help 'prepare' those thinking of using these themselves.

A lot more realaxed about the 'state' of the colonies after opening this morning and seeing seams of bees.
Just need to deal with the wasp issue next and wait till end of treatment period.

This is all good stuff ... it may be observation based but I don't have a problem with that - worked for Darwin ! Keep us up to date, I reckon there's a lot of people hanging on this thread.