Propolis

[Jack Straw]

I have a hive which is well and truly glued down with propolis.

It has 11 brood frames in a National with a super (nadir) underneath. Regrettably I did not have a dummy board in there.

When I tried last week to prise out a brood frame out, the bottom of the frame was stuck fast and the top bar of the frame started to detach itself and come away. I tried three frames and it happened with each of them. The bees have very firmly attached the brood box to the nadir

I am hoping that the warm weather this week will have soften the propolis a little and may help

Are there any tips / tricks I could employ to make the task easier or more certain to succeed.

Is it just a question of opening up and teasing away until I do eventually get the frames out whereupon I can transfer them into a clean brood box

 

[B+.]

Is it just a question of opening up and teasing away until I do eventually get the frames out whereupon I can transfer them into a clean brood box

If its as bad as it sounds, I think I'd be tempted to put a new box of comb / foundation ontop and allow them to move onto clean frames. It sounds as though you're going to destroy the frmes in the process anyway.
Having said that, I agree, the propolis will soften as it gets warmer. You have to make the decision on whether its possible to salvage the frames. If they're old, it might not be worth the effort.

 

[Jack Straw]

Is there any incentive for them to move up?

Thanks B+

I have a box of drawn brood comb I could put on top but if I do so is there any incentive for them to move up into it?

My thinking was that they would only do so if they became short on room downstairs. With an irremovable nadir they are effectively on brood and a half and so are unlikely to run out of space.

 

[itma]

I think I'd be trying to separate the boxes, possibly with the aid of a long knife, and tipping (all the frames simultaneously) sideways (a bee buddy might help!) then I'd expect to be removing the nadir before inspecting the brood frames.

Hopefully, the bees aren't using the nadir ... left in a bit late, I'd suggest.
Though brood-and-a-half types do play games in seemingly strange ways ...

However, my longer term concern is that there sounds to be something rather wrong with the beespace on one or both of these boxes.

 

[Excession]

Doesn't sound like propolis, sounds like brace comb between the nadir frames and the brood frames.

Maybe smoke them up into the top box, or new box and carefully pull a bit of cheese wire between the nadir and the brood box. Then do your clean up / sorting out.

 

[B+.]

I have a box of drawn brood comb I could put on top but if I do so is there any incentive for them to move up into it?

As the season starts and the nectar/pollen starts coming in, you can get away with a lot of things I wouldn't usually recommend.
For example, to encourage them onto your new box...invert the old brood boxwith the new one ontop...they'll move into the new comb pretty quickly

It sounds like the old set up is effectively a big skep....you have lost the advantage of movable frames. I grant you the queen needs the space to lay, but, you need access too

 

[itma]

... carefully pull a bit of cheese wire between the nadir and the brood box. ...

Even better than my long knife!
Definitely wants at least two people because it wants to be separated as it is cut through - otherwise it will likely just restick itself after the wire passes.

 

[masterBK]

Some strains do use lots of propolis. I have the odd colony like this (years ago I bought some Caucasian queens and some of their genes are probably still around ) so all their frames are lightly vaselined at contact points and the frame runners are vaselined plus I use vaselined dummy boards and even vaseline the wooden surrounds of the framed queen excluder.

 

[user 6228]

use thin stainless wire (think cheese slicer) slipped under lugs and then pulled along the joint you wish to separate using toggles/pliers/molegrips
The same trick can used in a variety of ways to separate boxes ftom boxes and frames from frames etc...

 

[Jack Straw]

Source for 'cheesewire'

Thanks for all of the comments.

I shall take a bee-buddy along with me and try using cheesewire to separate the two boxes first. Any idea where I can buy some stainless wire from?

A bit extreme but if the cheesewire fails I have a bow saw with a long blade which I may be able to use to gently separate the two halves - using it to cut through the wax/propolis not saw through the wood. I haven't any other knife with a long enough blade

They are both well used second hand boxes so I'll check the bee space once they are apart and cleaned up

Looks like I am going to be using lots of vaseline with this colony in the future

Kind regards

Jack

 

[Dishmop]

Try a kitchen pallet knife down the sides to cut the brace comb off the walls and you might be able to use it to slice through any brace comb between boxes. Once the boxes are separated, try twisting the box first before lifting it.

 

[B+.]

Any idea where I can buy some stainless wire from?

quick google search:
http://www.fridgefreezerdirect.co.u...qCKYv81G1JG6U7dhp4OV-Y1dsTQjsyq-T3BoC8sXw_wcB

or frame wire if you have any spare

Good luck

 

[Dishmop]

quick google search:
http://www.fridgefreezerdirect.co.u...qCKYv81G1JG6U7dhp4OV-Y1dsTQjsyq-T3BoC8sXw_wcB

or frame wire if you have any spare

Good luck

try "garden wire"

 

[Finman]

Once the boxes are separated, try twisting the box first before lifting it.

Do not try to separate the whole boxes when burr wax is bad. Twist and Lift frame by frame up.

.

 

[chrismcd]

Vaseline and an "Extra Long hive tool"

I would agree, use plenty of vaseline and get the longest hive tool you can find.

Works for me!

 

[BeeJayBee]

If you try using wire that's too thin it's likely to stretch as you try to pull it through the comb. Use either thicker garden wire or a hacksaw blade.

I would agree, use plenty of vaseline and get the longest hive tool you can find.

Works for me!

On any forum other than a beekeeping forum this could be seriously misconstrued! But then ...