Prompted by another post A heads UP!

[Ely]

If you read Teebiatch original post and give him the benefit of the doubt he may just be talking about enjoying dealing with swarms. He doesn't actually say he enjoys letting swarms abscond willy nilly.

 

[Teebeeaitch]

Thank you Ely. I have great fun catching swarms from all sources but I believe the vast majority are from other beekeepers. I think that says a lot about how successful swarm management is. Like I said, for the back yard beek with a couple of hives, swarms are not going to be a disaster for the beek, neighbours or the bees. In my view, ripping into the brood every seven days is not welcomed by the bees and that game is not worth the candle. How many beeks do you hear complaining that their bees have turned nasty. Swarms I can live with, so do my neighbours (for the past 8 years) without complaint. I will pick up any swarm FOC and give them away FOC if I don't have room. So swarms are fine in my location, aggressive nasty bees would be another story.

 

[masterBK]

A swarm check takes less than two minutes when you are well organised so I don't consider that ripping into the bees. With clipped queens only every 10 days. If you carry out demaree at the right time then often they don't produce swarm cells at all. Not only don't enough beekeepers carry out effective swarm control or prevention they don't tend to mark their queens either (99% of all swarms I have caught after being called out have unmarked queens). Perhaps if they marked their queens they would find them easier and be able to carry out some form of swarm control (although never 100% successful swarm control is not rocket science) Irresponsible beekeepers who let their bees swarm deliberately give us all a bad name.

 

[drex]

My bees have gone Ninja. All queens are marked, but rarely do I see them on routine inspections. I endeavour to get all queens marked on second inspection of the year. As masterbk says makes life so much easier when you do need to find her.

 

[bingevader]

Oh dear! What's with all the gross generalisations!
Most of us lose swarms "accidentally" now and then, is that irresponsible?
However, what would be wrong, especially in the countryside, with letting your bees swarm and then catching the swarms?
Is that irresponsible too?

 

[chrisb]

I guess by disaster you mean swarms. Is the occurrence of such really a disaster. Maybe for the commercial minded beek it is but for the back yard beek, it's all part of a very enjoyable game. Its the best bit about having bees for me.

please you not serious ? a swarm is a pain in the backside for back garden bee keepers, if they do and land in the same yard no big deal, but if they go a few houses away Arghhh

 

[Quis Custodiet]

One does get the view that some contributors to the this thread live in very large landed estates, situated in remote parts of the country, far from neighbours and the public.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Of course Quis
Down side no free swarms from errant keepers

 

[madasafish]

One does get the view that some contributors to the this thread live in very large landed estates, situated in remote parts of the country, far from neighbours and the public.

My gamekeeper collects my swarms.
My butler cooks my meals and serves drinks.
My chauffeur drives me everywhere.




Pity they are me..

 

[bingevader]

One does get the view that some contributors to the this thread live in very large landed estates, situated in remote parts of the country, far from neighbours and the public.

Mmm, no.
All the posts levelled at "irresponsible" bee keepers have been because they are "back garden" bee keepers.
Most are supposedly from "urban" bee keepers who are of the opinion that the "back garden" bee keepers should know better. ;D

Either that, or it's "rural" bee keepers trying to tell "back garden" bee keepers how they should handle their bees when they've a completely different experience of bee keeping.

If neither was the case then there wouldn't be anything to argue about.

Interestingly, none of the "responsible" bee keepers has ever lost a swarm.

Surely, if letting your bees swarm is irresponsible, then losing a swarm despite intervention is just poor bee keeping.

 

[ShinySideUp]

After reading this thread I'm sure I'd think very carefully before admitting on here that I'd lost a swarm, seems almost a capital offence!

 

[Swarm]

Best to grow a thick hide and forget to wash your ears, there's some beauties here who just love a soap box.

 

[Millet]

Best to grow a thick hide and forget to wash your ears, there's some beauties here who just love a soap box.

 

[alldigging]

After reading this thread I'm sure I'd think very carefully before admitting on here that I'd lost a swarm, seems almost a capital offence!

Admitting you deliberately lost one and did nothing to stop casts leaving too might be.

I don't think anyone would be abused for having tried their best to avoid scaring the public.

 

[bingevader]

A capital offence is a capital offence, I don't think you can have it both ways.

If losing a swarm is such a terrible thing and scary to the public then it makes no odds how it's come about.

Jo Public certainly won't know the difference!

You might be arguing the difference between murder, culpable homicide and manslaughter, but the outcome is the same.

What we really need to do is educate the public.

And anyhow, in less than a month there'll be countless posts on here about the delights of swarm catching and how happy posters are that they've increased their apiary numbers for NOTHING!

 

[Poly Hive]

ah but they will all of come from wild colonies. ....

PH

 

[Millet]

ah but they will all of come from wild colonies. ....

PH

 

[Teebeeaitch]

And anyhow, in less than a month there'll be countless posts on here about the delights of swarm catching and how happy posters are that they've increased their apiary numbers for NOTHING.

Which if you go back to post #2 was my very point. It's all part of the game and for those obsessed by swarm management, you ain't gonna win.

 

[peteinwilts]

It is not a case of winning or losing. It is a matter of education.

Currently the beekeeper has the choice whether to take advice (good or bad), and if the reader has the information, they can make their own choices.

There are pros and cons for catching swarms. losing swarms only has cons.

Swarm prevention is one of the most political subjects in beekeeping (disease control being the other) and currently primarily unpoliced.
If mandatory registration occurs, it will hurt the urban beekeeper the most.

From the US:-

(1) With the exception of A-1 Agricultural District zoning, it shall be unlawful for any person to establish or maintain any hive, stand, or box where bees are kept or keep any bees in or upon any premises within the corporate limits of the Village.

In the UK:-

Fundamental principle: every landowner can have reasonable use and enjoyment of his/her property subject to any specific restrictions e.g. in case of tenant, tenancy agreement, terms of planning permission, etc. However, a landowner cannot exercise this right [in the case of a beekeeper, the beekeeper] if to do so would unreasonably restrict his neighbour’s enjoyment of his/her property. It follows that beekeeping is no different from any other activity of mankind; you look to the effect of the activity on the neighbour and if it is, or becomes, inappropriate, the law will intervene.

All beekeepers lose swarms. I lose swarms, but try my best not to let them happen.

Swarm prevention = good

Accidentally losing the odd swarm = happens to everyone. try harder

Accidentally losing many swarms = must try much harder

Purposefully letting swarms go = need to understand the implications for all involved

Purposefully letting swarms go whilst understanding and not caring about the implications = irresponsible

Catching swarms has other implications:-

Good - it is another swarm not in another chimney, or frightening people down a high street.
A possible addition to the apiary. "bees for nothing"

Bad - The 'lucky' beekeeper does not know the source of the bees, or how healthy they are. They could be suffering with CBPV which is on the increase, or another apiary infecting disease. If in a shared apiary, you would not be thanked.
I have caught very few swarms with good temperments. For a new beekeeper, this could be a baptism of fire.

 

[Psycad]

SNIP
I have caught very few swarms with good temperments. SNIP

I understand one can re-queen in such cases and bees temperement becomes better ?

If so main objective against catching swarm would be catching a diseased one ?
But cant this not be diagnosed before its harming your other hives ?