Poly Hive + Wood

[user 6228]

Some will take time to come around.

Personally I have been talking about the advantages for near 30 years and am slightly amused at how it has taken off and equally appalled at some of the design errors that the Johnny Come Latelys have inflicted on us.

It is quite right to say that technically there is less efficiency using timber on top of poly but I have insulation on top of my CBs on timber hives ande would suggest you do too. It helps a fair bit.

Just keep in mind that bees love warmth and hate draughts.

PH

Bees need the heat to ripen the honey... you cant get water out of nectar without supplying heat, lots of it

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's surprising how many beekeepers have never even seen a poly but condemn them as the work of the devil.

You should see a thread that's winding on on the book of the face at the moment - hilarious at the desperate way some are scrabbling for 'reasons' not to like poly ranging from you can't blowtorch them or burn them if there's AFB (they blindly refuse to believe NBU guidance on using hypochloride) to it makes fish change sex!!!!!!

 

[Eyeman]

why would you want to mix poly and wood

Poly 14x12 Swienty, wooden 14x12 cut in half to make a home made pair of 14x12 wooden nucs, wooden shallow, 100mm of insulation in a wooden eke and a home made wooden roof with 50mm of insulation.

 

[Poly Hive]

Derek?

You are of course quite right but it comes down as always to the practicalities.

It is better yes to be all insulated but if you have a mix of supers it is not the end of the world esp with insulation on top. This is real life we are discussing not the theoretical.

PH

 

[Cussword]

They still fill them with honey regardless of their thermal properties.

I believe that Derek was talking about maximum efficiency.

Of course they'll fill them with honey, they would fill an empty space with it if they had nothing else.

 

[Beefriendly]

I believe that Derek was talking about maximum efficiency.

I won't mention ventilation....ooops
I think the ease that water vapor is evaporated from honey, tongue lashing/mixing it/moving it/fanning it etc will be related to the humidity inside a hive. The humid air needing to be replaced with less humid air. In an environment that has bottom ventilation only they need to force the humid air downwards which uses a lot of energy (loss of honey/nectar)....observed by the old beekeepers with single entrances as two currents of air, one in, one out, windy enough to extinguish a candle......clever girls.
Heat is more likely to be needed in the final capping process, where poly supers may have an edge, although the final wax making is localised heat so the extra heat required won't be dissipated far.
In the overall process I'm not sure whether total insulation is the most energy efficient, but regardless of whether it is or not they still manage to ripen it, one way or another. So in the practical world how much difference does it make if your supers are wood or poly?
Does anyone know what advantages are gained in amounts of honey stored and sealed in poly supers? Be interesting to do the experiments rather than theorise about it.

 

[Zante]

I would have loved to buy poly from the start, but it's just not a thing here.
It's hard enough to find non dadant material, let alone poly.
No dope of getting poly dadant.

I suppose cold isn't seen as a major issue in Italy.

 

[Millet]

I would have loved to buy poly from the start, but it's just not a thing here.
It's hard enough to find non dadant material, let alone poly.
No dope of getting poly dadant.

I suppose cold isn't seen as a major issue in Italy.

It is not a issue here really going by the last several winters..NOW do i really need a poly brood box or two.. lol .

 

[Beefriendly]

No dope of getting poly dadant.

Do you have a Lyson dealer in Italy?
If so, contact them and they should be able to help you out with poly Dadants, frames etc.
They may have to order them in for you, but they do make them.
Edit, there are two.
Via Milano 139
13900 BIELLA
tel. 015 28628
fax. 015 26045
[email protected]
www.hobbyfarm.it

And
Strada Comunale delle Fine, snc
86073 Colli A Volturno
tel.
[email protected]
www.consorzioconleapi.it

Make sure you get the right sized Dadant.....

 

[user 6228]

I won't mention ventilation....ooops
I think the ease that water vapor is evaporated from honey, tongue lashing/mixing it/moving it/fanning it etc will be related to the humidity inside a hive. The humid air needing to be replaced with less humid air. In an environment that has bottom ventilation only they need to force the humid air downwards which uses a lot of energy (loss of honey/nectar)....observed by the old beekeepers with single entrances as two currents of air, one in, one out, windy enough to extinguish a candle......clever girls.
Heat is more likely to be needed in the final capping process, where poly supers may have an edge, although the final wax making is localised heat so the extra heat required won't be dissipated far.
In the overall process I'm not sure whether total insulation is the most energy efficient, but regardless of whether it is or not they still manage to ripen it, one way or another. So in the practical world how much difference does it make if your supers are wood or poly?
Does anyone know what advantages are gained in amounts of honey stored and sealed in poly supers? Be interesting to do the experiments rather than theorise about it.

Consider this:
To make water in a solution into water vapour takes heat either from the air, from the bee or the nectar. The same amount of heat that it takes when you make a concentrated syrup on the stove. They do it at a lower temperature thats all.

Air doubles its water carrying capacity with each increase of 10C. The hotter it is the easier the bees job. you make humid air less humid by heating it.

To remove water vapour the bees don't always need to take the water vapour outside they just need a heat sink to make it condense.

 

[Beefriendly]

they just need a heat sink to make it condense.

Or the realization honey is hygroscopic?
Capping is a frantic rush to prevent humid air destroying all their hard work. aS you say the higher the temperature the higher the humidity...damn physics.

 

[user 6228]

Or the realization honey is hygroscopic?
Capping is a frantic rush to prevent humid air destroying all their hard work. aS you say the higher the temperature the higher the humidity...damn physics.

No for the same water content RH lowers with temperature. In our hives the bees cap when they can be bothered, often we harvest uncapped and it tests 16% water content.

 

[REDWOOD]

I wish mine had maximum heat loss last winter, I had to remove at least two frames of stores from my wooden hives

 

[Millet]

I wish mine had maximum heat loss last winter, I had to remove at least two frames of stores from my wooden hives

I wish this thermal conductive ***** would disappear as it makes my head hurt. lol

 

[mbc]

Bees need the heat to ripen the honey... you cant get water out of nectar without supplying heat, lots of it

Then why are supers of ripening honey cooler than the brood nest? Bees need airflow to get the moisture content down, any heat needed comes as a natural consequence of them putting it over the brood nest which they keep warm.

 

[Beefriendly]

No for the same water content RH lowers with temperature. In our hives the bees cap when they can be bothered, often we harvest uncapped and it tests 16% water content.

As colder air can carry more moisture and the inside of the hive is considerably humid. Retaining heat might not be in the best interests of honey ripening.
As for uncapped....what do you think will happen to the water content in a few short weeks if it isn't capped?

 

[REDWOOD]

I wish this thermal conductive ***** would disappear as it makes my head hurt. lol

 

[madasafish]

Then why are supers of ripening honey cooler than the brood nest? Bees need airflow to get the moisture content down, any heat needed comes as a natural consequence of them putting it over the brood nest which they keep warm.

You need energy to evaporate water. So as hot air from the brood nest flows over the uncapped honey and nectar, water evapaorates and the comb and the hot air cool.

Latent Heat of Vapourisation was what it was called when I did Physics.over half a century ago..

 

[user 6228]

As colder air can carry more moisture and the inside of the hive is considerably humid. Retaining heat might not be in the best interests of honey ripening.
As for uncapped....what do you think will happen to the water content in a few short weeks if it isn't capped?

You have it the wrong way round hotter air has the greater water carrying capacity. That's why you get condensation on cold surfaces

Y

 

[mbc]

You need energy to evaporate water. So as hot air from the brood nest flows over the uncapped honey and nectar, water evapaorates and the comb and the hot air cool.

Latent Heat of Vapourisation was what it was called when I did Physics.over half a century ago..

Well yes, my point was bees don't heat nectar, not directly anyway.