Playing the Waiting Game

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Finman, if I read the map correctly, interesting that the further north the warmer the temperature, +1. Is that the effect of the gulf stream?

No, and yes. High pressure centre is just now above South Finland.

Then centre run winds to Lapland via Norwegian sea.

There are no clouds and that makes night more cold.

You have too there a high pressure centre over Channel

http://ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/saa-ulkomailla


pwppthl.gif




.
 
Last edited:
"You have too there a high pressure centre over Channel." Yes, probably why we have all this snow now!
 
Hi Elly,
OA treatment is based on achieving a brood break and you are less likely to do so in the UK if you have insulated your hive. People on this forum have stated that some hives have brood all the year round which renders OA treatment less effective. Don't know if I remember figures correctly 70% of varroa in brood? However, the practice of not insulating existed in times before varroa and is based on bees consuming less stores when properly clustered in cold weather. I guess if you are a commercial beek you want to feed as little as poss. and don't want syrup in your honey. Money and workload. I am sure a proper beek will come along and give you chapter and verse shortly.

Brood is dependant on outside environment. The availability of pollen and the ability to actually forage for it.

I'm assuming you were advised to insulate in Feb to help with brooding due to the extra warmth and the energy that saves. So why not save them that energy, along with the stores, at the beginning of winter. Makes no sense
 
Opponents of insulation tend to live in the warmer parts of the UK..

Which says it all...
 
I've googled kingspan (I've only ever heard of it on this forum). They do a number of insulation products. I'd feel a bit of a fool walking into a builder's merchant asking for some kingspan to insulate my hives. What exactly should I look for, and what sort of size/quantity does it come in?

I bought a sheet of Recticel from Jewsons. I imagine its the same as Kingspan. Easy to cut with a knife. Sheet too large for the car so they sawed it into three for me. Fits snugly inside the hive roof.
BTW, I've kept bees for 40 years and this is the first year I've used insulation, persuaded by fellow Forumites.
 
Brood is dependant on outside environment. The availability of pollen and the ability to actually forage for it.

So it does, but very important in this meaning is a bee strain, does it has habit to stop brooding.

But it sure that insulation does not add brooding in autumn. Bees react on environment, not inside factors. They produce themselves steady heat into the hive.
 
in the belief that this is the right thing to do according to many experienced beeks.

Should have listened to the many that do!

The thawed patch on the roof is a clear indication of heat loss; a simple insulating sheet over the crownboard (as ericalfbee) is often all that is reequired. Not quite sure how many times we need to bang on about the financial pay-back - the sheet might cost far less than a bag of sugar. Your bag of sugar is now 'melting' the snow on the roof of your hive (and heat loss continues 24/7).

Your local BKA likely has mostly timber hives, not polystyrene. Really tough on the statistics when you think about it. Two hive owners are more likely to have two timber hives and their votes might well exceed the one vote from the multiple hive poly commercial beek! Listen to ITLD for instance; one vote for polystyrene, but two thousand hives (not all poly, but he does know the benefits).

Strong colonies with adequate stores will survive OK. They will simply use stores up much more quickly. Another story for weaker/smaller colonies which would definitely benefit from insulation or a smaller cavern. Of course, the risk of isolation starvation increases if the bees need to move to a new area of stores in the box, due to completely exhausting one area within a very cold period.

Inspection trays are a red herring unless in very severe weather as the bees can cluster where it is warmer - clearly better with an extra deep box over the deep ones, but that is another choice which perhaps should have been considered (wintered on a brood and a super is about the same as a single 14 X 12 brood).

Your bees would likely benefit from 'under insulation' only when the brood nest needs to extend close to the bottom of the hive?

Less than 3% does not necessarily include effective covering of crown boards, practised by lots of beeks as the norm all the year round - just as I do. Nor do I insulate my polyhives! See the problem of a simple poll?

Hi RAB,
Thank you for responding to my OP at such length again. There are not necessarily any safety in numbers on any level. The 3% was just an interesting casual observation of no statistical significance other than it runs contrary to this forum. Unless the people who do not insulate are less voiciferous. They do grow bananas in Iceland, but should we keep bees on the basis of 2013 housebuilding insulation practices? It is not about the mony, but I would like to think on more Darwinian lines. Importing queens from Greece does not seem right to me neither does feeding antibiotics to bees.
I have done my run of listening to my hives this morning and yes they are still alive. The roof has not shown any sign of thawing today under 15cm of snow - natural insulation perhaps.
I got one dead cert. survivor then the PH as you say no need for insulation there.
 
How long before we discuss the insulating qualities of cow dung !

Pete D

Go for it Pete! The problem is it is only shower proof and therefore the skeps were stacked under cover.
 
This is my first winter and tbh, from what I have been told and read,I thought insulating your hive was pretty much what everyone did?

I just got some old surplus kingspan from a builder I know and cut it to size. Each hive has two peices with the bottom piece having a cut out for a block of fondant.
 
I've googled kingspan (I've only ever heard of it on this forum). They do a number of insulation products. I'd feel a bit of a fool walking into a builder's merchant asking for some kingspan to insulate my hives. What exactly should I look for, and what sort of size/quantity does it come in?

I've bought some from B&Q they sold it in 450mmx1200mm sheets, it was Kingspan.
Worked out about £2 a hive including the aluminium tape to seal the sides and join the offcuts together to make another one or two more.
I cut them to fit just inside the batons in the roof.
 
I've googled kingspan (I've only ever heard of it on this forum). They do a number of insulation products. I'd feel a bit of a fool walking into a builder's merchant asking for some kingspan to insulate my hives. What exactly should I look for, and what sort of size/quantity does it come in?

You are after aluminium foil-faced polyurethane foam insulation boards.
These are made by different manufacturers, and in different thicknesses.

Kingspan is one brand name. But Celotex seems to be the best-known brand name. A sheet prominently labelled "Xtratherm" was called Celotex by the guy that did my roof!

You don't need a great thickness, unless you plan on insulating over a feeder chamber. Even then, two layers is probably the best way to go.

Wickes sell small (1200x450mm) sheets of Celotex (about 2" thick - plenty!) @ £5.59
Link ->> http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/190546


Right now Lidl's should still have Aluminium tape, which you can use to provide (optional) protection to the cut faces of the board.


Any saw (or breadknife) will cut the stuff. It does generate quite a bit of 'sawdust' - so don't cut it in a carpeted room ...


Putting it inside an Apiguard eke (or a super - requiring different cutting dimensions!) above a sealed crownboard is usual.
If the top of your crown board has any framing, you may need to rebate the insulation very slightly so it sits down very close onto the crownboard.


Oddly, this is a good thing to do even with Pains poly nationals (and national nucs) as the roof ought to be thicker poly than the walls - but isn't.
 
Last edited:
"Worked out about £2 a hive including the aluminium tape to seal the sides"

you don't need to seal the sides if they are going on top of crownboard, only if used as internal dummying where the bees can access the bare PU.
 
All those sizes! Mine are 460 x 460mm Simple. Sit directly against crownboard and held down by the roof.

My first efforts were blocks filling shallows, but that was soon substituted by these 25mm thick squares or some of 50mm thick. I used to make them with cut-outs for feeding but, as I keep saying, that is rarely ever needed with a full 14 x 12 box of stores.
 
Beeno,
You will notice certain practices are hot topics on this forum, insulation possibly rates as the number one contender, you've probably already noticed the strong opinions. No doubt there are plenty of keepers who do not insulate their hives, I've yet to see kingspan over the crown board as none of the beeks I know use it. I'm not saying I agree or disagree and I have no idea if those beeks are members of this forum. Temps were a lot colder than this in 2010 and my uninsulated hives overwintered very well and one of those was a small (late) colony that many would have you believe should have been in an insulated nuc. That's not to say I would have a similar approach if I lived in a country that has real winters.
Maybe try insulation next year and see what you think?
 
Beeno,
You will notice certain practices are hot topics on this forum, insulation possibly rates as the number one contender, you've probably already noticed the strong opinions. No doubt there are plenty of keepers who do not insulate their hives, I've yet to see kingspan over the crown board as none of the beeks I know use it. I'm not saying I agree or disagree and I have no idea if those beeks are members of this forum. Temps were a lot colder than this in 2010 and my uninsulated hives overwintered very well and one of those was a small (late) colony that many would have you believe should have been in an insulated nuc. That's not to say I would have a similar approach if I lived in a country that has real winters.
Maybe try insulation next year and see what you think?



I speak from one not in Southern UK..

I fitted insulation post 2010 and I found hives survived winter far stronger with insulation than without..

Nut then solar hives appear to have no insulation and that from one who loves bees.. :)
 
I have never insulated my wooden hives so far so good. A few years ago we had temps as low as -15 no problem for the bees.
 
For the 'keeper with a handful of hives, try asking on Freecycle for spare kingspan.

Then they were doing building work at the hospital where I'm based - and they gave me lots of off cuts.

Cost me nothing but the tape for the edges.

Oh, and it's great for doing a cut-out to put fondant inside.
Tape the cut edge, keep the bit you cut out and it fits the hole if trimmed.

Easy and fun to work with.

Dusty
 
If you look at my poll here 2 years ago, 96/164 (58.5%) respondents who specified use top insulation. Bit different to the 3% at your association - what are the demographics there? lots of oldies and newbies and little in between?

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8356

Hi drstitson, If you define what you mean by oldies and newbies and little in between I might be able to answer your question. What are you a doctor of?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top