Plastic foundation

[Rockingod]

I'm considering switching from wax to plastic foundation. I've experimented with plastic in a couple of boxes and they seem to work ok.
Does anyone else out there have any experience of using plastic ?

 

[Niv]

I have not but I did read the following on Thornes website on the description of plastic foundation they are selling:


Once drawn the combs are virtually indestructible, enabling the beekeeper to extract at high speed without fear of the comb breaking up.

It must however be pointed out that conditions for comb building must be near perfect for the bees to work the foundation.

Many commercial beekeepers use plastic foundation now as a matter of course but we have heard that some, especially in New Zealand and Australia, are reverting back to pure beeswax foundation.


I was planning on experimenting with some next season but have decided to wait until the season after as I want to expand my hive count and want to give them the best chance possible rather than experiment with plastic only to find they don't take to it.

My advice would be, don't go all in on plastic - keep some foundation available in case you get issues.

 

[xray7]

I used some black plastic brood foundation a few years ago.on the plus side it is easier to see eggs against black background. Against this it is a messy job to clean off old wax to reuse.I've now reverted to wax foundation.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

Plastic just doesn’t sit right with me....

 

[pargyle]

Plastic just doesn’t sit right with me....

Yes ... I just love to see the bees making the comb that they want .. there's enough plastic in the world without beekeepers adding to it.

 

[Michael ECB's]

Yes ... I just love to see the bees making the comb that they want .. there's enough plastic in the world without beekeepers adding to it.

I agree, natural way always amazes me... BUT!
I cant help but think this could/would help them, such a firm base to build on, once extracted less repairs for them to make, for us that only use brood boxes easy to rotate frames up from brood into supers.... Plus, I'm almost certain this would be recycled plastic,,,,, so wouldn't we be in a way "kinda" helping.... This is how I try and convince myself... ??? I'm seriously considering it....

 

[user 6127]

I ordered some sheets in the Thorne sale. Will frame it up this winter, and try it in the spring.

I'm sure it is made with recycled plastic, which is melted once, and the product made.
Wax foundation needs changing more often, and thus, requires melting and moulding more often, using more energy.

 

[pargyle]

I ordered some sheets in the Thorne sale. Will frame it up this winter, and try it in the spring.

I'm sure it is made with recycled plastic, which is melted once, and the product made.
Wax foundation needs changing more often, and thus, requires melting and moulding more often, using more energy.

In that case ... become totally eco-friendly and go foundation free ! Then when the comb finally reaches the end of its life (in my case - brood combs rarely reach the end of their life) or you collect enough stray wax and cappings - make candles out of it and save electricity. Zero carbon footprint from start to finish.

 

[john w]

I ordered some sheets in the Thorne sale. Will frame it up this winter, and try it in the spring.

I'm sure it is made with recycled plastic, which is melted once, and the product made.
Wax foundation needs changing more often, and thus, requires melting and moulding more often, using more energy.

I think it can and does work. I started using it 10 years ago and although the bees do prefer wax, plastic has its place. Cleaning up: I simple pare it down to the surface and that gets rid of the old cocoons and almost any pollen. easy to see eggs on black plastic.
john

 

[Rockingod]

My thoughts.......

Plastic is fantastic. Yes.....You read that correctly. PLASTIC IS FANTASTIC. It's the human idiots that throw it away 'willy nilly' without recourse to getting it recycled that is the major source of the problem.
The other is 'single use' plastics which I must admit I am not particularly enamoured with.
Plastic frames are 100% recyclable. They have (on rough estimates) a 30 year lifespan before being recycled.
I have experimented with them I find them pretty good to deal with.
They are very simple to clean off. Simply take a 4 inch scraper and scrape away the build up of old comb. The bees just rebuild back on the original foundation'
Yes....I'll agree that there are certain pitfalls...
1) You can't mix and match wax and plastic together in the same box at the same time. Otherwise they will brace.
2) To get the bees to draw the foundation from scratch you will need to feed heavily with syrup. Either that or you will need to make sure that you are on a good nectar flow.
3) I'm not too keen on using ready waxed, bought in, foundation. I use my own wax dipping tank to ensure that I have a really good base to start the bees off with.
Given time, I'll think of other pros and cons and keep you posted accordingly.

 

[MuswellMetro]

i have in the past used pre= plastic from Bee equipmenta but with added wax to surface in OSR supers as if the osr set i can scrap back to the plastic, them melt out the honey, recover the wax

 

[Wingy]

Tried one hive a couple of years ago and it didn’t seem to make any difference. Tried 3 more this season and just one colony decided to build their own comb in between the foundation sheets, that was fun, but think it was because I mixed & matched with drawn wax comb.
Just in the process of making up 300 new brood frames for next season, all will have plastic foundation.

 

[benjamind]

My bees just didn’t seem to get on with plastic foundation; very slow to draw it out and would rather expand upwards than sideways.

I’ve since binned all the plastic and gone for wax foundation. Bees seem much happier, expanding quicker etc.

 

[Speybee]

My thoughts.......

Plastic is fantastic. Yes.....You read that correctly. PLASTIC IS FANTASTIC. It's the human idiots that throw it away 'willy nilly' without recourse to getting it recycled that is the major source of the problem.
The other is 'single use' plastics which I must admit I am not particularly enamoured with.
Plastic frames are 100% recyclable. They have (on rough estimates) a 30 year lifespan before being recycled.
I have experimented with them I find them pretty good to deal with.
They are very simple to clean off. Simply take a 4 inch scraper and scrape away the build up of old comb. The bees just rebuild back on the original foundation'
Yes....I'll agree that there are certain pitfalls...
1) You can't mix and match wax and plastic together in the same box at the same time. Otherwise they will brace.
2) To get the bees to draw the foundation from scratch you will need to feed heavily with syrup. Either that or you will need to make sure that you are on a good nectar flow.
3) I'm not too keen on using ready waxed, bought in, foundation. I use my own wax dipping tank to ensure that I have a really good base to start the bees off with.
Given time, I'll think of other pros and cons and keep you posted accordingly.

Always good to hear of other beekeepers dipping their toes into pastures new and more importantly sharing their own experience.

My question would be, how do you get rid of the pupal ‘skins’ that you get with dark/black comb?
My bees hate it and the queen will not lay in black combs, so I am replacing foundation as soon as it goes black.

My other question is would keeping the same foundation for so long not be encouraging pests and diseases a nice wee hidey hole?....to return when conditions are favourable.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My other question is would keeping the same foundation for so long not be encouraging pests and diseases a nice wee hidey hole?....to return when conditions are favourable.

You scrape it all off and start again.

 

[Speybee]

You scrape it all off and start again.

Thanks for your answer

 

[Murox]

In that case ... become totally eco-friendly and go foundation free ! Then when the comb finally reaches the end of its life (in my case - brood combs rarely reach the end of their life) or you collect enough stray wax and cappings - make candles out of it and save electricity. Zero carbon footprint from start to finish.

 

[Rockingod]

Tried one hive a couple of years ago and it didn’t seem to make any difference. Tried 3 more this season and just one colony decided to build their own comb in between the foundation sheets, that was fun, but think it was because I mixed & matched with drawn wax comb.
Just in the process of making up 300 new brood frames for next season, all will have plastic foundation.

I'm assuming then that you are already 'sold' on plastic then Wingy?
As an aside, other reasons for using plastic are that the little tykes can't chew it and make holes in it. They are also not able to detach the foundation at its sides and base where contact with the frame is made. Makes inspecting (especially for those hidden places where they like to build QC's) much easier and far more accurate when making important visual assessments.
I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I would have thought that plastic would actually be less wasteful in energy resources than wax. How much energy is used to melt wax, clean it, purify it and then to reform it into sheets of foundation?
In addition, there are the transportation costs to consider. My brood frame foundation rotation is approx 3 years (subject, of course, to how the bees have treated it). That means that over the plastic's lifespan of 30 years (potentially, according to the research) there would be 10x less transportation costs and 10x less energy resources used.
Finally, The bees themselves......They need to consume at least 5 pounds of honey to produce 1 pound of wax. A pack of 10 (brood) wax foundation weights around 1.5 pounds. So that's 7.5 pounds of honey that they have had to consume just to build the foundation. (Are my calculations correct on that?).

 

[drdrday]

Rockingod has pretty much answered one of my queries about plastic foundation which is how/where the bees build queen cells? Mine are typically always in those cavities the bees make at the sides or bottoms of frames so I wondered what bees on plastic foundation that they can't nibble away would do.

 

[Wingy]

Rockingod,
Regards plastic foundation I’ve dipped my toe in so to speak and other than one colony that built between the sheets all has been good so far.
Next season I’ll look at having just over half on plastic so should get a better idea overall as to which way I will be going.
So far only used it on 2 supers as I’m also looking at going one size box and using brood boxes as honey supers (while still young & fit enough to throw around a Langstroth brood box full of honey)