Pagden Split - how long should I wait for a new queen?

[4degreesWest]

I performed a (I think it’s called a Pagden) split on the 2nd May. The Q+ colony is doing well but there is no brood or signs of eggs in the Q- colony 22 days later.

Should the new queen have mated by now? I can’t see one. The queen cell that I left in there had been opened three weeks ago and I assumed that she should have mated by now.

Am I being impatient? If there is no queen what are my options? Could I combine this hive with a weaker Q+ hive that I have?

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Three weeks is ideal but isn’t always achievable. Have a quick look in the middle of a couple of the middle frames to see if the cells are polished clean and shiny. That is often a indication that the bees are preparing for their new queen. Are they calm? That’s a sign too.
I usually give up at six weeks but you have to make sure there isn’t a queen of some kind with a test frame.
It’s a balancing act. The longer you leave it the more you risk laying workers.

 

[4degreesWest]

Thanks. I’ll take a look for polished cells. They are pretty calm.

If I do a test frame and they make a queen cell is that potentially a viable queen for them?

 

[enrico]

Thanks. I’ll take a look for polished cells. They are pretty calm.

If I do a test frame and they make a queen cell is that potentially a viable queen for them?

It is usually a time when patience is a virtue. For you to see the first eggs she lays would be unusual so really you are looking for capped brood. If they are calm and happy the chances are good that things are OK. Trust the bees, at least for five weeks!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks. I’ll take a look for polished cells. They are pretty calm.

If I do a test frame and they make a queen cell is that potentially a viable queen for them?

Personally I don’t. The bees are pretty old by then.
I take the cells out and introduce a mated queen

 

[4degreesWest]

Personally I don’t. The bees are pretty old by then.
I take the cells out and introduce a mated queen

Thank you

 

[4degreesWest]

I usually give up at six weeks but you have to make sure there isn’t a queen of some kind with a test frame.
It’s a balancing act. The longer you leave it the more you risk laying workers.

I popped a frame of brood from another hive in four days ago. Have just checked back and they have not made any emergency cells, although I’ve noticed that they have built some empty queen cups along the top of another frame.

Trying to be as patient as possible!

In other news a really weak colony that only just made it through the winter has just just made themselves a new queen! Maybe if a queen doesn’t appear soon in Hive Two I’ll merge these two together?

 

[Finman]

It is not rare, that a new queen vanishes on its mating flights.

Queen development in swarmed colony's shedule is such, that when last workers have emerged, then a new queen starts to lay. It about 20 days = 3 weeks.

 

[4degreesWest]

So I almost bottled it today and was getting ready to combine the two hives. One last look in the Q- hive revealed some brood that wasn’t there last week so I’ve left things as they are.

I don’t think the weather is helping. No two days are the same!

 

[enrico]

So I almost bottled it today and was getting ready to combine the two hives. One last look in the Q- hive revealed some brood that wasn’t there last week so I’ve left things as they are.

I don’t think the weather is helping. No two days are the same!

take it that it was worker brood! If so ....I told you that patience wins

 

[JamezF]

I don’t think the weather is helping. No two days are the same!

That seems to be the way of things these days

James

 

[4degreesWest]

take it that it was worker brood! If so ....I told you that patience wins

So she’s laying, and it’s worker brood, but now three queen cells have appeared in there too. One of which is full of royal jelly but uncapped as of yet. I know it’s probably impossible to tell, but is this likely to be a cast? Is there a way of stopping it? There are only 4-5 frames of brood in there and plenty of stores.

 

[Wilco]

*

 

[enrico]

So she’s laying, and it’s worker brood, but now three queen cells have appeared in there too. One of which is full of royal jelly but uncapped as of yet. I know it’s probably impossible to tell, but is this likely to be a cast? Is there a way of stopping it? There are only 4-5 frames of brood in there and plenty of stores.

Sometimes the queen takes a while to get going and they hedge their bets by making queen cells that they later tear down. It is the only time I remove all queen cells just to give her a while to get going properly. As long as here are fresh eggs in there .

 

[user 20297]

Sometimes the queen takes a while to get going and they hedge their bets by making queen cells that they later tear down. It is the only time I remove all queen cells just to give her a while to get going properly. As long as here are fresh eggs in there .

Thanks...that's useful for me too.

 

[4degreesWest]

Sometimes the queen takes a while to get going and they hedge their bets by making queen cells that they later tear down. It is the only time I remove all queen cells just to give her a while to get going properly. As long as here are fresh eggs in there .

Thanks. That makes sense.