Oxalic acid sublimation vs trickling

[Finman]

I thought it was interesting because it was trickling with brood present, most studies that I've read are without brood.
You suggest it was performed 15 years ago? .

When Italian professor Nanetti invented the trickling 1997, it was reported that trickling kills brood. And trickling does not help, because 80% of mites are under pupa cappings. That fact has not changed.

 

[Finman]

.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5186740/

That research was interesting, because it shows that the trickling and oxalic acid is new to the researchers. They have repeated the things what has done almost 20 years ago.

They style of reporting is very confusing. They have lack of experience and they do not know what to say.

They compare results with Canada. They do not understand that hives are naturally broodless in cold climates compared to Egypt.
,

Their habit to report " 100 g oxalic acid to the hive" means that they have added 100 g acid into one litre of 1:1 syrup.

Litre syrup is 1,6 kg and the percentage is then 6,5% oxalic acid.
.

They report that 6,5% syrup is most efficient against mite but it kills bees too.
.

Study of university of Essexs has similar features. The method has been new to the researchers.
.

 

[Beefriendly]

.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5186740/

That research was interesting, because it shows that the trickling and oxalic acid is new to the researchers. They have repeated the things what has done almost 20 years ago.
.

They are aware of the previous research as they quote that 1995 paper you linked above plus many others in their introduction.
I quote ""Many experiments worldwide were conducted to test the efficiency of this acid in Varroa treatment (Nanetti et al. 1995, Nanetti and Stradi 1997, Imdorf and Charriere 1998, Higes 1999, Gregorc and Planinc 2001, 2002, Moosbeckhofer et al. 2003, Nozal et al. 2003, Hatjina and Haristos 2005, Bacandritsos et al. 2007, Girişgin and Aydin 2010, Giovenazzo and Dubreuil 2011, Mert and Yucel 2011, Gregorc and Planinc 2012). These studies showed that the population density, amount of brood, climatic conditions, honey availability, migratory beekeeping, hive management and the development of Varroa population do directly influence the treatment efficiency. Thus, there are no scientific studies under Algerian conditions.""

I think they are very aware of previous trickling and oxalic acid work
The subtle difference is they were looking at OA in Algeria (not Egypt) and also side effects on the colonies of bees.
Beginning to wish I hadn't bothered bring this recent paper to peoples attention. Certainly know better in the future.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Don't think like that BF .... Alot of us hadnt heard of this research .... Ignore the haters

 

[Beefriendly]

Don't think like that BF .... Alot of us hadnt heard of this research .... Ignore the haters

Much appreciated.

 

[Finman]

They are aware of the previous research as they quote that 1995 paper you linked above plus many others in their introduction.
I quote ""Many experiments worldwide were conducted to test the efficiency of this acid in Varroa treatment (Nanetti et al. 1995, Nanetti and Stradi 1997, Imdorf and Charriere 1998, Higes 1999, Gregorc and Planinc 2001, 2002, Moosbeckhofer et al. 2003, Nozal et al. 2003, Hatjina and Haristos 2005, Bacandritsos et al. 2007, Girişgin and Aydin 2010, Giovenazzo and Dubreuil 2011, Mert and Yucel 2011, Gregorc and Planinc 2012). These studies showed that the population density, amount of brood, climatic conditions, honey availability, migratory beekeeping, hive management and the development of Varroa population do directly influence the treatment efficiency. Thus, there are no scientific studies under Algerian conditions.""

I think they are very aware of previous trickling and oxalic acid work
The subtle difference is they were looking at OA in Algeria (not Egypt) and also side effects on the colonies of bees.
Beginning to wish I hadn't bothered bring this recent paper to peoples attention. Certainly know better in the future.

But they have minimum experience about trickling. On hobby level.
.

Novadays Coloss project try to resolve, how to use oxalic acid in south, because brood are allways present. IT is not easy because they have done that work 10 years.

Perhaps researchers of Egypt do not have enough money to visit in other countries research groups.

.
.

 

[Beefriendly]

Not many hobbyists publish peer reviewed papers. So well done to them.

How to use Oxalic Acid to keep varroa mites under control in the presence of brood without killing it is already well known at a practical level by many hobbyist and professional beekeepers in Europe and the UK. You don't dribble you vape.
Dribbling, as all the science for the last 20 years has suggested can cause bee mortality (high concentrations) and brood mortality (lower concentrations). Unless people can find a clever solution.
As these guys paper reported they have not found a clever solution with dribbling when brood is present all year round.......yet.

So why is it taking the professional scientists behind the Coloss Project so long to catch up with the knowledge and equipment already used by us hobbyists? They do seem a bit slow don't they.
The range of apparatus available for successful varroa control via vaping whether brood is present or not is currently mind boggling. Some of the apparatus wouldn't look out of place in a Star Wars film and some so cheap you can make it for pennies/cents.
Although we in the UK seem to be lagging behind a bit due to our stupid laws forbidding us to use anything other than apibioxal for vaping/dribbling plus a new dribbling solution that has just been approved.

This site has many threads and references to how to vaporise OA to kill varroa in the presence of brood. Although it would seem from a few posts that some are less successful with their vaporization techniques than others.

 

[Finman]

.
I admit. Egypt is best place to pick varroa treatment to Britain.

 

[Beefriendly]

.
I admit. Egypt is best place to pick varroa treatment to Britain.

You are definitely getting good at English sarcasm. Not an easy thing to do when it's not your native language. Well done.....and that is NOT meant in a sarcastic manner. Take it as a compliment.

 

[rdmw]

Check out http://m.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/33537


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[keith pierce]

As a positive side effect does oxalic sublimation kill acarine mites as well as varroa.

 

[REDWOOD]

Oxalic acid dribbling method is not as safe as first thought
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00218839.2005.11101174

 

[Finman]

Oxalic acid dribbling method is not as safe as first thought
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00218839.2005.11101174

IT has been told everywhere 15 years, that do not trickle brood right hives.

That above, published 2005

Treat brood right hives with thymol or with formic acid
.

.

 

[Beefriendly]

As a positive side effect does oxalic sublimation kill acarine mites as well as varroa.

Good question, I don't think it has been tested. But as acarine mites are found within the trachea (internal) and varroa are found on the outside of the bee my guess (and that's all it is) would be no.
But you never know.

 

[Finman]

Good question, I don't think it has been tested. But as acarine mites are found within the trachea (internal) and varroa are found on the outside of the bee my guess (and that's all it is) would be no.
But you never know.

I looked acarine cure. it is formic acid and menthol.

https://entomology.ca.uky.edu/ef012

.

 

[fred scuttle]

Quick question..... Does oxalic vaping actually kill varroa mites or just cause them to drop off the host?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Kills them.

 

[fred scuttle]

Thanks Pete