Over-Supering vs. Under-Supering

[Paddington]

I was interested to read in the June issue of BBKA magazine that "research has shown that bees do not care what we decide to do" when it comes to supering our hives.

I have always over-supered my hives. I find it quick, easy and less hassle that taking supers off to under-super. However, this year I decided to under-super 10 of my hives, while over-supering my others.

The results are very similar to those outlined in the BBKA article. There was no noticeable difference in bee activity gained from either method, even when adding a super of foundation.

Has anyone else had a different experience? Are there any obiouvs pros/cons to over-supering or under-supering that I'm missing?

 

[madasafish]

Under supering means lifting a brood box.. For the very strong.. Not for me I'm too old and decrepit..

 

[Millet]

Under supering means lifting a brood box.. For the very strong.. Not for me I'm too old and decrepit..

I think the OP means putting the new super on top or below the full super, not below the brood box as that is surely a Nadired super..

 

[Erichalfbee]

Either
Under when still inspecting brood box regularly
Over when not

 

[Finman]

I was interested to read in the June issue of BBKA magazine that "research has shown that bees do not care what we decide to do" when it comes to supering our hives.

I have always over-supered my hives. I find it quick, easy and less hassle that taking supers off to under-super. However, this year I decided to under-super 10 of my hives, while over-supering my others.

The results are very similar to those outlined in the BBKA article. There was no noticeable difference in bee activity gained from either method, even when adding a super of foundation.

Has anyone else had a different experience? Are there any obiouvs pros/cons to over-supering or under-supering that I'm missing?

BBKA has Lost its mind

.a bee had instinct to rise honey up and move brood area down.

I know guys who keep brood box topmost and honey boxes down. They yields are small.

 

[Erichalfbee]

No. Not honey super under the brood box. The OP is comparing a stack of supers
Say you have two on already and you are adding another. Do you put it underneath the two supers on top of the QX or do you put it on top of the two that are already there.
Clear as mud I expect

 

[Finman]

.
I do not use excluders. IT is clear order to keep boxes and to take off and add mite. Bees have clear tendency, what they will do.

 

[Hivemaker.]

...

Just found this paper which compares top and bottom supering. It might be of interest...Top Supering vs Bottom Supering

http://caes2.caes.uga.edu/bees/Publications/EffectsTopVsBottom.pdf

ADDING SUPERS FOR EXTRACTED HONEY.
The actual operation is about the simplest in beekeeping: with the super ready on a stand beside the hive, remove the crown-board and put it over the supers; smoke once, put on the excluder, and lift the supers on top of it. Total time, about twenty seconds. If you are using a plain zinc excluder, you will have to scrape the tops of the brood-frames to allow it to lie flat—a job best done by firm smoking and one determined stroke per frame, rather than by many delicate strokes.

Estimating the right time and order for adding supers is more difficult; the advice used to be to super when the first crumbs of fresh white wax began to appear at the tops of the brood frames, but this is now reckoned as too late. Probably the stock is really only ready for supers when, on removing the cover-board (with only a whiff of smoke), you find bees at the top of the six middle frames.

The first super must, if possible , be of drawn combs and not foundation. Bees cannot draw out foundation until warm weather and plentiful nectar arrive, and if you insist on their doing so, will often swarm with ample room at their disposal – “room” which they cannot use.
It is now considered that the second, third and fourth supers may be added on top of the first and allowed to remain there. It is true that a super of foundation will be fully drawn faster if one puts it below the first super as soon as the bees have half-occupied it, but honey farmers say this is done at the expense of work in No.1 super, and that the overall work in a bock of supers is no better by this means than by “top supering”.

Snags:
Adding a cuper to early: the result is to drive the bees down from it, because of the loss of heat.

Putting a second super of foundation under the No.1 super without letting the bees start work on it in the upper position: this disheartens the bees and may cause swarming in the same way as giving foundation only in the No.1 super.

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Radcliff omits reference to pollen in supers which is a valid point that hivemaker makes. He also omits the benefit of top supering enabling quick checks with large numbers of supers (Hivemaker). I've got stocks on 7 supers that are quite happily in the top box drawing foundation.

The point about faster drawing when bottom supering (PolyHive) is mentioned but the caveat is that work in supers above is retarded as work commences in the new supers below and the risk is partially filled supers and consequent wasted space, especially when foundation is being drawn.

https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5529&page=2

....and.... https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12357

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

BBKA has Lost its mind

<like>

 

[Eyeman]

If you keep you brood area tight up against the QE then putting the empty super directly over the QE prevents a honey bar forming above the brood area. So no honey goes into the brood area, queen has space to lay and swarm preps are delayed.

 

[Finman]

.
Hivemaker's link says in summary, that bottom supering failed. Less honey and more work.

 

[Fusion_power]

I use bottom supering to some extent when I need foundation drawn. Start with a strong hive that is working well in the first super. Swap 2 frames from the first super into the foundation super placing them in the center of the box. Place the foundation super above the brood box and the first super on top.

The reason for doing this is that the bees will draw foundation out a lot faster right above the brood nest. As stated, this only works on a strong hive with a heavy nectar flow. Don't put supers on the bottom in the trailing period of the flow. It encourages the bees to pack the brood nest full of honey which disrupts queen laying.

 

[Finman]

I use bottom supering to some extent when I need foundation drawn. .

That had nothing to do with supering.
.
You may do the who hive from medium supers. IT is a normal hive then.


Why this idea is so difficult. Inventing square wheel or what... Eureca

To draw foundations faster..... Bees draw as fast as they need the combs. No need to hurry.
.

 

[Eyeman]

.
Hivemaker's link says in summary, that bottom supering failed. Less honey and more work.

You don't use queen excluders and your season is short.
Over here my season starts in late March and goes on till October. I use excluders.
Our practices are different!

 

[enrico]

There's no telling him eyeman, I gave up long ago
E

 

[Finman]

You don't use queen excluders and your season is short.
Over here my season starts in late March and goes on till October. I use excluders.
Our practices are different!

This has nothing to do my of Finlands beekeeping. The whole world uses over supering.

I have American style in beekeeping even if climate is different. Austalia has good systems too.

Yes you over there have active period 8 months. I have 4 months.

I get on average 60-80 kg honey per hive and you out there 10-15 kg. Reason is not excluder or climate.

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[Finman]

There's no telling him eyeman, I gave up long ago
E

Enrico want to teach how to get 15 kg honey from a hive.

Different climate ? I cannot believe that, that every country can have different climate on globe!
Our apple trees are starting to bloom. Dandelions are in full bloom.