One size box

[rolande]

if its your back that the reason , the issue is not just the weight but also the width. .Beekeeping is bad for the back because the centre of gravity of the box is such a distance from to your spine when lifting. A box that had fewer frames of the same size or even bigger frames might be better i.e. have 6 jumbo frames not 12 std. That way if you pick it up the right way there is less leverage.
Its the same problem as the old 19" PC CRT monitors, which I managed to hurt myself with.i

Easiest way to carry a super is to flip it so that the topbars are vericle, against the body.

 

[plain_hunt]

Which extractor is it please?

It’s a Lega Superinox, 9 frame manual. It’s quite big, but I can carry it through doorways quite easily, providing I watch out for the tap and my fingers. Can’t see any numbers on it. I bought it 15/16 years ago.

 

[Gunner]

My Logar 32 frame ( 32 Frame Programmable Automatic Extractor ) will take 14 x 12 radially (but only just).

I am about to move to Langstroth deeps throughout but using the 8 frame professional / commercial model from Paradise Bee Boxes. Hopefully they will be a little lighter than the normal 10 frame Langstroth boxes.

 

[user 6228]

Easiest way to carry a super is to flip it so that the topbars are vericle, against the body.

I can understand that for a capped super minus bees being carried a distance, but a lot of the loading on the back is while shuffling during an inspection . How can that help then? Or is there another trick to learn?

 

[rolande]

I can understand that for a capped super minus bees being carried a distance, but a lot of the loading on the back is while shuffling during an inspection . How can that help then? Or is there another trick to learn?

Every trick that works helps, but increasing the hight of a hive seems entirely counterproductive in every respect. A dadant deep frame aka a 'jumbo' holds best part of 7lb of honey when full, so x6 of those frames would be rather more than a bs shallow super holds and almost as much as a dadant shallow holds.

 

[user 6228]

Every trick that works helps, but increasing the hight of a hive seems entirely counterproductive in every respect. A dadant deep frame aka a 'jumbo' holds best part of 7lb of honey when full, so x6 of those frames would be rather more than a bs shallow super holds and almost as much as a dadant shallow holds.

but it puts less strain on the back Force times distance

 

[JamezF]

but it puts less strain on the back Force times distance

But only for a moment

James

 

[thorn]

What is your reason for describing the Rose box far better than shallows?

It's bigger. It will hold more brood or more honey.

 

[Ian123]

It's bigger. It will hold more brood or more honey.

So does that mean a national brood is even better

 

[Newbeeneil]

So does that mean a national brood is even better

Exactly, the Rose box is half way between brood and super but far more expensive box wise and frames.
Supers would be much easier to handle in a single box system as they would be 20% lighter and there would only be one additional junction between boxes in a 30” stack!
I really don’t see an advantage.

 

[rolande]

I can visualise this intermediate depth as being a good compromise for someone wanting a one size box but preferring a deeper box than the standard shallow while not wishing to stack deeps up high. In fact I even think that there's a possibility that a couple of these boxes might make a more efficient brood area than a double national deep for a lot of bees but that's just shere speculation.

Isn't there a little used US langstroth variant (western?) with similar thinking behind it as these rose hive bodies?

 

[thorn]

So does that mean a national brood is even better

For brood, yes. But it would be too heavy for most of us to handle as a honey super. The OP was wondering about using just one size of box. If doing that I believe that the rose is the ideal compromise. You don't have to follow Tim Rowe's method.

 

[Tony Warren]

Exactly, the Rose box is half way between brood and super but far more expensive box wise and frames.
Supers would be much easier to handle in a single box system as they would be 20% lighter and there would only be one additional junction between boxes in a 30” stack!
I really don’t see an advantage.

I use Rose (OSB) boxes, or more correctly National brood boxes cut down to Rose box depth, an easy mod. You are correct frames and boxes (i don't use the dedicated Rose box) are a bit more expensive, about 10% more but there are advantages. Thornes sell the frames & foundation, so readily available. You only have one size of kit, everything is interchangeble, less to carry to the out apiary. I find I buy less kit as I don't have to have two lots of spares in different sizes. Manipulations are easier being able to swap frames from supers to brood area & visa versa. Weight is a bit more but not been a problem, I would not be able to lift a National brood box full of honey. Buying bees in nukes is a bit tricky but they go into a national brood and transition to Rose boxes over the season. That said I've only every had to buy one nuke. On the whole I have used both Brood + Supers and Rose Boxes. I find OSB much easier and convenient.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I use Rose (OSB) boxes, or more correctly National brood boxes cut down to Rose box depth, an easy mod. You are correct frames and boxes (i don't use the dedicated Rose box) are a bit more expensive, about 10% more but there are advantages. Thornes sell the frames & foundation, so readily available. You only have one size of kit, everything is interchangeble, less to carry to the out apiary. I find I buy less kit as I don't have to have two lots of spares in different sizes. Manipulations are easier being able to swap frames from supers to brood area & visa versa. Weight is a bit more but not been a problem, I would not be able to lift a National brood box full of honey. Buying bees in nukes is a bit tricky but they go into a national brood and transition to Rose boxes over the season. That said I've only every had to buy one nuke. On the whole I have used both Brood + Supers and Rose Boxes. I find OSB much easier and convenient.

I agree entirely, as I’ve said I will try to have a go at OSB this year but can not see any real advantages of Rose boxes over supers.
Regarding cost I buy supers and frames as seconds so pay approx £15 & 50p but have never seen any OSB sizes in a sale.
The cost for these items on the Thornes website is approx £30 and £1.70 respectively
Hardly the 10% you quote although the boxes are easy to make so I would make my own if I went for that size.
Even the cost of the foundation is significantly higher, £1.05 compared to 74p.
The need to have 20% more supers than Rose boxes mitigates these elevated prices slightly but using supersI could make up a 30” tall hive for 60% of the price of a Rose hive of the same size and as I already run standard supers on my hives I can use my existing ones.
As I’ve said before I like the idea of a OSB but I’m yet to be convinced that Tim Rowe’s choice of size was based on anything other than it was halfway between a brood box and a super.

 

[little_john]

I use one size frames DN4. After switching, I found things a lot easier with hive manipulation not having to mess around with two different sizes when swapping frames around. They get heavy though when full of honey.

For vertical Nationals I use a 14x12 box for full-size brood, with a pair of 5-frame DN4 supers over. 5-frame boxes can be hugged closely to the chest, thus reducing strain on the back. (Important when you're 75 and 6'4" )
'best,
LJ

 

[Ely]

Good advice. I'll remember that

 

[rolande]

For vertical Nationals I use a 14x12 box for full-size brood, with a pair of 5-frame DN4 supers over. 5-frame boxes can be hugged closely to the chest, thus reducing strain on the back. (Important when you're 75 and 6'4" )
'best,
LJ

Nice to see you posting again

 

[fian]

For 30" the configurations will be:
Between 5 and 6 hikes bs.
4 Rose modules.
1 standard nest and 4 supers bs.
1 Nest 14x12" and 3 risers bs.

 

[Newbeeneil]

For 30" the configurations will be:
Between 5 and 6 hikes bs.
4 Rose modules.
1 standard nest and 4 supers bs.
1 Nest 14x12" and 3 risers bs.

30” of hive = 5 BS supers or 4 Rose boxes.

 

[fian]

30” of hive = 5 BS supers or 4 Rose boxes.

According to wikipedia the bs riser is 5.5" tall so 5 shorts and 6 rises. The Rose modules are 190mm or 7.5" so 4 makes exactly 30".
By the way, Farrar in his writings uses a single box system with dadant supers (170mm which is just under 130mm effective comb), and total heights of 11 supers (57" effective comb) for very good hives.