nuc condensation

[beesleybees]

Hi guys,

still vey new to this bee keeping. This is my first winter as a beek and im very nervous about getting my bees through the winter

I knocked up a nuc a couple of months ago out of some 18mm ply. I have put a fixed bottom on it and have found that when I was taking the crownboard off, There was a wet patch underneath it. This has now begun to grow mold on it

I have drilled a couple of 14mm holes in the side of the roof to allow the moist air out but dont think they work as they are in the side wall of the roof and the roofs sits perfectly flat on the crownboard, this nuc is brimming with bees. didnt want to transfer them to a BS national brood box as it was a late swarm so didnt have time to draw all frames out and fill them with stores

 

[region2]

Open mesh floor?

 

[user 6228]

Hi guys,

still vey new to this bee keeping. This is my first winter as a beek and im very nervous about getting my bees through the winter

I knocked up a nuc a couple of months ago out of some 18mm ply. I have put a fixed bottom on it and have found that when I was taking the crownboard off, There was a wet patch underneath it. This has now begun to grow mold on it

I have drilled a couple of 14mm holes in the side of the roof to allow the moist air out but dont think they work as they are in the side wall of the roof and the roofs sits perfectly flat on the crownboard, this nuc is brimming with bees. didnt want to transfer them to a BS national brood box as it was a late swarm so didnt have time to draw all frames out and fill them with stores

just ensure your nuc complies with Building regulations part L in having a roof with a U value of 0.18W/m2k. for the roof and walls with a U value of 0.28W/m2k

75mm kingspan walls and a 120mm kingspan roof would do that nicely

 

[Poly Hive]

You have this issue because the CB is cool and the nuc is full of damp air with the water condensing as you see it.

Modern thinking is to have a mesh floor and a substantial thickness of insulation above the CB. This seems to work better with a thinner CB, say 9mm not 18. By substantial I mean 2" or more. Good quality insulation such as the builders put under floors. If you have a Sheffield Insulations branch near you they usually have some scrap they are happy to give away.

Probably too late to alter the floor but please put insulation on top, your holes are not going to help them survive. Honestly it is not.

There are several threads on here which you might learn from re wintering.

PH

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Assuming you don't have a leak... and it's too late to open the hive and mess around.
We can guess that condensation is occuring in a cold spot. Try some insulation over the crown board.
Last year I had a mini-nuc with a solid perspex crown board and there was condensation under it. An inch of polystyrene on the perspex and under the roof sorted out the problem after a week or two. (it took that long for the water to go.)

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Am I missing something here? I thought that the theory with solid floors was that there should be some ventilation, normally in the top.

 

[Poly Hive]

Some theories are rubbish

PH

 

[Finman]

.
A nuc does not need a mesh floor and it is not more modern than solid floor.

Ply is a wrong material as inner cover and holes are in wrong place.

Use as inner cover 2 inch something soft and light insulating board.
Polystyrene board of light wood fibre. Air inside the board makes insulation.

Then make a small hole into front wall near top bar. 10 mm is enough.
.......

Plye is heavy material and it sucks water 30%. That means that the stuff doest not much have insulating air bubbles.

Better structure is if you have two thin plye, and between them there is one inch insulating board, like polystyrene, stone wool, etc....

 

[peteinwilts]

and it's too late to open the hive and mess around.

It is 15 degrees for most of the week. I would have thought it would be ideal to do those last minute jobs before leaving them for the winter.

 

[Finman]

Am I missing something here? I thought that the theory with solid floors was that there should be some ventilation, normally in the top.

it is not theory. It is a common practice for example in Canada.
I have had solid floors and a small upper entrance in all hives.
Now I have 35 hives and none mesh floor.

It depends so much how big nuc is (room) and how big is the cluster inside.
Nucs often struggle for their life to keep themselves warm.
They do not stand much ventilation.

I have moved small clusters to 4 frame polynucs. i have aided them too with shaking bees from bigger hives When I moved them to home yard.
Nucs have 10 mm upper entrance and main entrance 4 cm x 1 cm. It is really something else than mesh floor ventilation.

 

[oliver90owner]

Yes, some theories are.

The thickness or thinness of the coverboard will not make a lot of difference, if it is well insulated, except there will be a little more heat energy lost through the sides of the coverboard, but the difference between 9 and 18mm will be fairly negligible, I would have thought.

Certainly as the ratio of edge:area changes, the edge losses will change; one can easily model the change. An overly long coverboard of very short width would lose more heat from the edges than a square box (or even a circular one, which is the best one can achieve- theoretically).

If the solid floor could not be modified, I would be auguring several 14mm holes (covered with mesh afterwards, of course) around the box at floor level for some bottom ventilation, with the addition of at least 50mm insulation material over the coverboard. Expanded polystyrene (EPS) would be perfectly adequate.

Last winter, I raised a brood box on a 14 12 by about 3-4 mm from the floor when I was unable to do anything else about it. It went through the winter completely dry. The entrance was also left full width to maximise the ventilation. The coverboard was completely closed, and insulated over.

RAB

 

[Finman]

It is 15 degrees for most of the week. I would have thought it would be ideal to do those last minute jobs before leaving them for the winter.

it is splended weather to arrange beehives. I do my final works here in 9C
Last year we had snow in ground in these days.

 

[Finman]

Yes, some theories are

If the solid floor could not be modified, I would be auguring several 14mm holes (covered with mesh afterwards, of course) around the box at floor level for some bottom ventilation, with the addition of at least 50mm insulation material over the coverboard. Expanded polystyrene (EPS) would be perfectly adequate.RAB

pure nonsense.


14 mm holes into floor!

How the bees stay in the hive when you move them to outer pastures? Every 4 mm hole must be stucked.

If you have a 50 mm insulation cover, you may do into the front edge a 15x10 mm tunnel to the top bar space.
That is enough upper ventilation to the largest colonies. At least it has worked in my hives 45 years. 2 langstroth boxes full of bees.

.

 

[oliver90owner]

14 mm holes into floor!

We have the usual Finish translation here. Try again. Please read more carefully, next time.

 

[Finman]

.
Is it in floor or nearby, same nonsense. They are really not needed.

I do not know how to read your ideas, yes or no or what?

 

[Finman]

Yes, some theories are.


If the solid floor could not be modified,

I would be auguring several 14mm holes (covered with mesh afterwards, of course) around the box at floor level for some bottom ventilation, ulated over.

RAB

- I am able to translate : to modify solid floor, why

- what means auguring?

- 14 mm holes around the box at floor level?
...........what, why ?
Some bottom ventilation? You have a large entrance. More than enough.


.

 

[drstitson]

Lets not forget the old trick used by those moving hives to the heather to prevent thefts - hole bored in bottom of solid floor and plugged with a cork while transporting but removed when hives left. anyone trying to steal the hives would get a shock.

 

[oliver90owner]

- what means auguring?

Sorry, my mistake It should have been spelt 'augering', as in the use of an auger.

- I am able to translate : to modify solid floor, why

I never mentioned modifying solid floor. Floor level has a little different meaning in English, perhaps.

- 14 mm holes around the box at floor level?
...........what, why ?

To provide bottom ventilation of course. Bottom, as in bottom of the cavity, not through the bottom face, as you seem to be thinking. Believe me, bottom ventilation works! Some may wish to refer back to post#11 for an example of a dry hive with solid floor and no top ventilation. It works, well enough in the uk with temps down to around -20 last winter. I know it worked; I did it, and saw the results. I don't lie.

 

[Finman]

You keep me as stupid as reindeer.

i studied in Helsinki University biology from English books 5 years. Tens of books.. I am master of science in Biology and I surely understand what you are writing. But it makes no sense. Drill holes to ventilate?. That is first time I meet that trick.

I had -30C many weeks. Yo know, when the diffence between cluster and outside is bigger, air flow is faster.

Hivemaker has solid bottoms. Perhaps a relict of the past.
UK is not so special that it needs special solutions in beekeeping. You have actually very old fashion hives.
Other countries have given up those models decades ago.

Like in USA, you did not have found that the first thing in wintering is to get such a bee stock that
it reacts to local weather in proper time. And no patty feeding before Christhmast.

In USA they too say that they "have conditions". They use same hives and same queens from Florida jungles to Alaska. Alaska is at same level in Finland. And the best insulation experts are from California where oranges bloom in January.

Yes, all is so different. Sure. in Alaska they kill hives when they cannot keep them alive. In California winter dead rate is 40%. And they say that I understand nothing.



.

 

[Finman]

.
Oliver! Look at UK winter losses? Something wrong in wintering habits about what you are so proud. And the reason is not that I do not understand English. You are mad with your ventilations: mesh, holes, matchsticks, feeding holes open and what else?
Your conditions: wind, rain, fog, Basgerville docs....