Nuc box frame spacing

[Gubby_uk]

Morning all.
New bee here so forgive me if this has been asked before. I'd like to make a nuc box and have found lots, and I mean lots of plans online. I'm using castleated frames in my hive, with 14x12 in the brood box. I'd like the nuc to take 14x12 for convenience. Has anyone done it with castleations and how many frames did you use please? Perhaps there's a plan out there for doing it that I haven't found yet?
Thank you

 

[Erichalfbee]

Can I ask why you want to add castellations?
14x12 frames all come with Hoffman side bars so are self spacing
My 14x12 nuc boxes are supposed to take 6 but I usually only put in 5 ...but they are poly so are bought, not made

 

[Gubby_uk]

Can I ask why you want to add castellations?

Can I ask why you want to add castellations?
14x12 frames all come with Hoffman side bars so are self spacing
My 14x12 nuc boxes are supposed to take 6 but I usually only put in 5 ...but they are poly so are bought, not made

Hi,
All the boxes in my hive are castellated so I thought it would be best to do it in the Nuc box. Just to get the spacing right?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Horses for courses, I guess. makes it impossible to slide frames along as you inspect.
If you're determined to do it that way then take any plan and simply cut down a metal castellation and attach it in the same way as your brood boxes are done.
How many frames do you have in your brood?

 

[Gubby_uk]

Horses for courses, I guess. makes it impossible to slide frames along as you inspect.
If you're determined to do it that way then take any plan and simply cut down a metal castellation and attach it in the same way as your brood boxes are done.
How many frames do you have in your brood?

Hi,
11 in the brood. The hives were already set up with castelations and frames to match, so I didn't want to pull it all apart and start again. 1st hive so being a bit slow and steady.

 

[Gubby_uk]

I'm guessing Hoffman frames won't fit into a castleated box?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes they will

 

[Gubby_uk]

Yes they will

Really? That would make life easier. Would I need to remove the castellated strip or do they go over the top of it? Sorry if it's a daft question. i may be better off just buying a Nuc with frames instead.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Whether you can simply remove the castellation depends on how many spaces you have got in your 14x12 Most boxes take 11 and a thin dummy board. The purpose of the dummy is to be able to take it out, slide the adjacent frame over a little and remove it without rolling bees. It gives you space to do the same all the way through the box when you are inspecting the brood.
If you have new foundation frames then just take the castellation out. It's a little more difficult if you have 11 drawn frames as the spacing is just a little out....the frames being a little fatter where the bees have drawn them for stores

 

[Newbeeneil]

I use castellations in nuc boxes which I make to take 5 frames. I also have 3 frame version with a shoulder strap that I take to inspections to enable me to nuc a queen if needed.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's what I meant with "Horses for Courses" Some people manage castellations in the brood perfectly well

 

[blackcloud]

Nucs are fantastically useful and there's often a need for a few more Buy a poly nuc and copy the internal dimensions for your own new build.
Personally I'd ditch the castellations in the broodboxes and put metal runners instead.
The frames may be too fat in that case but that will usually be just the arc of stores at the tops which can be trimmed back without too much disturbance

 

[Gubby_uk]

Nucs are fantastically useful and there's often a need for a few more Buy a poly nuc and copy the internal dimensions for your own new build.
Personally I'd ditch the castellations in the broodboxes and put metal runners instead.
The frames may be too fat in that case but that will usually be just the arc of stores at the tops which can be trimmed back without too much disturbance

 

[Gubby_uk]

Are Poly Nucs better? If I end up buying one would I better going down the Poly route?

 

[Garry R]

I don't use poly nucs myself but I have spoken to many beekeepers who swear by them (not at them!) They claim much faster build up and I can believe that, where smaller number of bees don't waste energy/stores keeping the brood nest warm. I do use poly brood and super boxes throughout but I can make the wood nucs myself being tight!! - Aberdonian and Yorkshire grandfathers and Yorkshire Dad!!! The disadvantage of the castellated spacers as against the self spacing is uneven comb leading to rolling the bees as you can't separate the frames a little before lifting them out A bit of wiggle room is not a bad thing. I do have castellated supers but that doesn't involve removal of frames until harvesting so no bees.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I don't use poly nucs myself but I have spoken to many beekeepers who swear by them (not at them!) They claim much faster build up and I can believe that, where smaller number of bees don't waste energy/stores keeping the brood nest warm. I do use poly brood and super boxes throughout but I can make the wood nucs myself being tight!! - Aberdonian and Yorkshire grandfathers and Yorkshire Dad!!! The disadvantage of the castellated spacers as against the self spacing is uneven comb leading to rolling the bees as you can't separate the frames a little before lifting them out A bit of wiggle room is not a bad thing. I do have castellated supers but that doesn't involve removal of frames until harvesting so no bees.

I disagree with the "rolling bee" comments as you only have to raise the frame 10mm before you have the room to raise frames if you know what you are doing. Most people don't so I would never condemn anyone not using castellations . In fact I tend to kill more bees when using my clients self spacing frames than my castellations.
Castellations in nucs are very useful if you are moving them (as with my travelling 3 frame nuc above) as the frames do not move.
Re. the uneven frames, if you are changing just nudge them together and the bees will sort the spacing by reducing the thickness themselves.

 

[Gubby_uk]

Hi all.
Some fantastic advice here, thank you. I haven't got any bees in my hive yet and am just setting it up. I reckon a rethink is in order before I make and fit the frames. I think Hoffman may be the way to go after reading the above comments so I'll remove the castleations and fit some strips. As for the nuc box, I'll have a serious think between wood and poly. The tight bit of me says wood and make it myself. The sensible bit says poly because it knows my woodworking skills

 

[blackcloud]

I inherited my configuration but stuck with it because it suits.
I have timber hives because my climate doesn't warrant poly (and I'm a tightwad and chronically clumsy) but polynucs because the sort of colony that I would have in a nuc is generally one that would benefit from the thermal advantage.
That said,the increasing cost of polystyrene has led me to clone additional parts from timber for use in summer.
Just sort your current issues out for now

 

[ericbeaumont]

Hoffman may be the way to go after reading the above comments so I'll remove the castleations and fit some strips

Good decision which will simplify working the box, especially as you're just starting. Consensus is that Maisemore metal runners give correct beespace under the lugs (some are useless).

serious think between wood and poly

Wood is fine for working during the season and 3 or 4 frame nucs are useful for mating queens using the minimum brood and bees to get the job done. Bees will over-winter far better in poly; best boxes are BS and Maisemore.

BS can be split into two 3-frame sections, but propolis & wax in the grooves makes the divider awkward to return to 6-frame, so use it either as a twinstock or a 6-frame, but not both. Maisemore use the same basic mould and offer extension boxes, QX and travel screen. These extensions are compatible with BS boxes.

Poly boxes have become much more expensive in the last 12 months for obvious reasons, but if you raise and over-winter a couple of nucs and sell them in the spring you will more than recoup the investment. When you're in that situation, have an experienced beekeeper check the bees in the autumn, and in spring before sale.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm guessing Hoffman frames won't fit into a castleated box?

yes they will - Hoffman frames give a slightly narrower spacing than castellations so already drawn hoffmans will fit easily into castellations but you can't do it vice versa - ie, revert to using those particular frames without castellations in future