Now I'm Confused!

[Scots_Mike]

Hi folks
My bees have confused me these last few days.
On Sat I did a full inspection and all seemed well lots of bees and super frames being capped. I couldn't find the queen so went back through the brood and spotted an unmarked queen running down the side of a frame.
I marked her and put the hive back together assuming that they had swarmed when I wasn't around.
Today when I got home from work I went to the hive to see what they were bringing in and spotted a small cluster on the ground which after a while I guessed were balling and killing something.
My jaw hit the floor when eventually I spotted what they were killing - it was my new queen!!
Bees were still flying and though I haven't opened the hive I lifted the corner of the crown board and bees were up there and I looked up under the open mesh floor and bees on all frames in the brood.
Anyone got any suggestions on what might be going on in my hive - I'm not sure if my orig queen is still in there or yet another new queen has emerged and ousted the one they killed outside the hive or I have a laying worker!!
Not sure what my next steps should be so all advice welcome.
Cheers
Mike

 

[oliver90owner]

they had swarmed when I wasn't around.

It might help if you elaborate a little on this. It is usually difficult for a colony to swarm and not be noticed (per eg queen cells in the hive for more than a fortnight, no brood developing for best part of a month).

I think you need to check the hive and again in three days time, perhaps. More will be apparent when you report your findings and tell us about your absence.

RAB

 

[Chris Luck]

Sounds like when a Virgin Queen on a mating flight falls short of the hive and bees cluster round her, on occasion in quite large numbers and can form a "corridor" back to the hive and walk her back...

....did you see what actually happened?

Chris

 

[Poly Hive]

I am assuming your original queen was marked, you suggest but do not say so?

PH

 

[Scots_Mike]

When I inspected hive on Sat there were sealed queen cells present that I killed. It is possible I missed one or more on the previous inspection.

Didn't see the start of what happened only saw the cluster that had already formed.

Original queen was marked and last saw her on the 6th May

 

[For want of a better word]

May have been because you marked her?
Has been some discussion about this, and under the precautionary principle I now only mark queens that are being introduced, or have been marked before purchase by the breeder.
However in defence of your actions; if you had not marked her, would you have seen her gallavanting around on a jolly on the hivesteps?

 

[Scots_Mike]

Yes I guess that's possible but I would have expected her to be killed straight away on the Sat not 3 days later.

 

[Headnavigator]

May have been because you marked her?
Has been some discussion about this, and under the precautionary principle I now only mark queens that are being introduced, or have been marked before purchase by the breeder.

What is the likelihood of a queen being killed after being carefully marked?

 

[MuswellMetro]

May have been because you marked her?

or putting her back on non brood frame that the bees don't expect her on can cause rejection of her

 

[susbees]

Do you actually have a dead marked queen...or did you think that was what happened because there was a cluster?

A queen on the grass can attract quite a pile of bees. Just the smell of a queen on the grass almost as many...

Were there eggs? What age? Young larvae?

 

[Scots_Mike]

Yes a dead marked queen.
No eggs, no uncapped brood, about 2 frames of capped brood still to emerge.
Assumption at the moment is hive swarmed sometime between 6th and 15th May.
Will have to wait now till circa 3rd to 13th Jun I guess to see if any eggs to know if there is yet another new queen in the hive. If no eggs then I will put a frame with eggs from a fellow beekeper in an hope they raise a new queen.

 

[susbees]

A small frame of eggs/young larvae now will tell you if you are Q+ or Q-. If they raise QCs then there's no queen, if they feed them as normal there's one in there somewhere. Look for polished cells mid-frame too where they aren't putting nectar.

Two or three days will tell you what the status is of your hive. Best to know now than wait?

 

[Scots_Mike]

Yes good point - the sooner they start on a new queen if they need one the better.
Interestingly they seem to be behaving as normal i.e. no change in behavior - foraging and bringing in pollen but I don't know if thats just because they have some brood still to emerge.

 

[666bees]

You will soon know when they find out they are q-.

Good luck.