No queen cells, yet there was the swarm!

[Poly Hive]

Well well never say never. Just helped a neighbour with a swarming hive. No queen cells just a couple of cups with eggs, and a swarm. The neighbour found the queen amongst 20 odd bees on the bark chippings and she was put into the new BB with an excluder between the BB and the floor. Never seen a swarm go without cells but it is in full sun and the hive felt hot so that may have been a factor. A timber hive.

PH

 

[Popparand]

Same thing happened to me. Captured the swarm and two weeks later no sign of any queen in the hived swarm. So I gave them a frame of capped brood with a nice fat capped queen cell from another hive.

I'm not sure if the original hive has a functioning queen. I'll have another look later on this week and if there's no sign of queen or brood I will have another frame with a capped queen cell ready to transfer from another hive. I couldn't find any queen cells in the original hive before they swarmed.

Nothing like this in the books. If everything works out it means that the queen in the original hive stopped laying, no queen cells and maybe the queen damaged/dead? And then they swarmed!

So anyway I did what common sense seemed to be the best thing to the do. Fingers crossed it all works out.

 

[mjt68]

"can I stop swarming by knocking down QCs?"

Not saying this is what happened here, just that bees don't read the manuals

 

[Finman]

"can I stop swarming by knocking down QCs?"

Bees do new cells and continue their swarming fever untill they get a new virgin. You do not fiöd all queen cells. They do not work much when they wait for departure.

Only what you can do is to make a artificial swarm. Let them first read your beekeeping book.

 

[Finman]

. No queen cells just a couple of cups with eggs, and a swarm.
PH

I have had that couple of times. In boath cases cells were so full of nectar that colony looked better to find a new home.

 

[Hachi]

Same thing happened to my mate yesterday...… Strange indeed.

 

[oliver90owner]

...Queen amongst 20 odd bees...

How big was the swarm?

 

[Murox]

I have had that couple of times. In boath cases cells were so full of nectar that colony looked better to find a new home.

Thats exactly why bees swarm on the flow.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

im wondering if this is what we have happening

lots of bees around 2 bait hives in garden apiary...havent floured them yet but may, they do look like theyre coming from direction of a colony which has

2 year old queen (swarm factor 1)
lots of nectar in bb (SF2)
egg in q cup yesterday (SF3)
and there is a strong flow on (SF4)
very good weather (SF5)

however on friday we
added 2nd bb and they have 5 un drawn frames (SF-1)
empty drawn frames for q to lay (SF-2)
q cup had no royal jelly (SF-3)

so, on balance risk may be high

we want increase but not necessarily from this queen

thoughts? (Poly Hive, have pm'd you)

 

[Popparand]

I have had that couple of times. In boath cases cells were so full of nectar that colony looked better to find a new home.

Yes that would figure. Maybe the early start to the season caught them on the hop!

 

[mazzamazda]

They also take off when loaded with varroa

 

[Angularity]

Collected a swarm from a hive I keep in a friend’s garden. They had hopped over the hedge into a neighbour’s garden, which my friends thought was hilarious, because they hate their neighbours. The hive was established from a cast swarm we collected last August, so I know for a fact this particular queen has swarmed twice so far in her life. Which implies that I need to get rid of her genetics.

I inspected them on Friday, no brood, no space to lay because all the space was full of nectar. I gave them more empty drawn frames, but obviously too late. Expecting more of the same for the next couple of weeks.

 

[oliver90owner]

In view of no reply from PH, I would guess it is a few bees which have gone with an old queen which has been turned out of the colony after a supercedure. Just a guess.

 

[rolande]

In view of no reply from PH, I would guess it is a few bees which have gone with an old queen which has been turned out of the colony after a supercedure. Just a guess.

Same guess here, not the commonest sight but certainly does happen, I mentioned a similar event on the Scottish Forum a few years ago.

 

[Sean.]

I was going to ask this, as this is what has happened to me yesterday! Not seen the queen today, will look again. As I did a artificial swarm on the colony, as showing queen cells.

I've looked today, to see what was going on with the split, and can't see HM, or any queen cups with either eggs or royal jelly. The split with all the broad has been treated with the Liebig dispenser.

 

[Finman]

I was going to ask this, as this is what has happened to me yesterday! Not seen the queen today, will look again. As I did a artificial swarm on the colony, as showing queen cells.

I've looked today, to see what was going on with the split, and can't see HM, or any queen cups with either eggs or royal jelly. The split with all the broad has been treated with the Liebig dispenser.

I do not know what the writing means.... HM? what is that?

If the laying queen is in the artificial swarm, it starts to lay again about on third day.

But Sean, if you do not know what is happening in the hives, who else has such binoculars that he can see inside your hives.

 

[Sean.]

Hi Finman,

HM = Queen = Her Majesty

I moved the original colony, and the split, e.g. artifical swarm with two frames of brood, and foundation. This is the one that seemed to swarm. I checked and could not see any thing other than the start of play cups. No sealed queen cells, on the two frames of brood.

 

[oliver90owner]

Ahh, Finny likely thought you had Hivemaker hiding somewhere in there!

 

[Finman]

Ahh, Finny likely thought you had Hivemaker hiding somewhere in there!

I thought that it means Her Mom.

Hivemaker is S = Sir
(used as a polite or respectful way of addressing a man, especially one in a position of authority.)