Nicot newbie

[italic63]

Hello everyone from the north of Italy. I'm in that terrible initial stage of needing to try something never tried before so bear with...
I have only 2 hives, one strong one which swarmed about 3 weeks ago and one much weaker which has a laying queen and is on about 2 healthy frames of brood. The queenless hive gave birth to a virgin queen about 2 weeks ago so i left them to get on with and crossed my fingers... i inspected the hive to check for a mated queen and some signs of new brood but nothing. I assume therefore that the queen never mated successfully and the hive goes on queenless.
I thought I would try my hands at the Nicot to try and generate some queen cells so I put the frame in about 4 days ago with some sugar water on it. Bees seemed to be in there and cleaning it out. A couple of days ago I introduced the queen and she spent the forst day or so trying to escape with her back to the empty cells. I went back and had a look last night and there were around 20 cells with eggs inside however 3/4 of them had 2 or 3 eggs in there.
Questions:
1) are those cells with multiple eggs from laying workers?
2) are the remainder with the single eggs from the Queen?
3) should I reject the eggs and start again to be safe?
4) should I just ignore how many egs there are and release the queen and wait for the young larvae to appear?

Thanks and be kind...I know I've got so much to learn

 

[drex]

All the eggs likely to be from the queen. In multiples because she is so limited to space. The workers will eat redundant eggs. All sounds good
2 weeks is not long enough to pronounce a hive queen less or poorly mated. I would only start to be concerned after 3 weeks or more

 

[Curly green finger's]

The only way you will know if it's a laying worker is those eggs will be drone brood..
As drex said sounds like a queen laying in multiple cells I've seen this with young queen's and when queen's don't have much space.

 

[italic63]

Guys as a complete novice stuck in the italian countryside you have no idea how comforting it is to read these words!
I imagined 2 weeks was not long enough but in reality it's been a full 16/17 days and the virgin queen has disappeared and there is zero signs of any brood whatsoever (lot's of honey though ). Of course I will check again before introducing any larvae but I'm desperate to give this nice strong colony a new mum...
Thanks again

 

[user 819]

It is to early for a new Queen to be laying, give her another week or two.
From emerging it has been known that 5 weeks can pass before signs of brood are seen but typically 3 - 4 weeks is the likely scenario.

Being in the North of the country the climate is a bit cooler so one will need a bit more patience.

If you are unsure if the colony is queen less, then select a frame with eggs and very young larvae from the good hive. Shake off the bees and place it in the suspected QL colony, leave it 4 or 5 days and then see if they draw queen cells. If they don't draw queen cells then there will be a queen present. Don't be too hasty and give the VQ 28 days to start laying.

One thing you shouldn't be doing is interfering with a colony replacing a queen. Once you know a VQ has emerged leave the colony well alone to settle down and get on with the job.

 

[enrico]

Plush the fact that the first batches of eggs can easily be missed. I always wait six weeks before panicking!

 

[italic63]

OK...wow!
This is her on May 13th. Easy to spot and seemed quite healthy. May 25th she's nowhere to be seen and zero brood. To be honest it has been quite cold as well here strangely...

 

[user 819]

How long had it been since she emerged when the video was taken on the 13th ?
The VQ takes 4 or 5 days to mature in the colony before mating so she isn't going to mate for at least that time after emerging. Cool weather will slow the process up, in my eyes you are being to rash and she it at the least due another 14 days before considering what next, in the mean time if the other colony is strong and can afford to give up some brood then rob one or two brood frames with no live bees and give to the VQ colony. If possible give one frame with sealed emerging brood and one with eggs and young larvae, if they are without the queen then they will soon let you know.

 

[user 819]

For your small colony hopefully you have then in 3 or 4 frame nucleus box or have dummied them down if in a BB and infilled at least 2/3's of the space with insulation for them to thrive.

 

[italic63]

How long had it been since she emerged when the video was taken on the 13th ?
The VQ takes 4 or 5 days to mature in the colony before mating so she isn't going to mate for at least that time after emerging. Cool weather will slow the process up, in my eyes you are being to rash and she it at the least due another 14 days before considering what next, in the mean time if the other colony is strong and can afford to give up some brood then rob one or two brood frames with no live bees and give to the VQ colony. If possible give one frame with sealed emerging brood and one with eggs and young larvae, if they are without the queen then they will soon let you know.

Thanks...yes from what you are all saying it sound like I'm jumping the gun a bit. I have no idea when she emerged exactly. I thought I'd destroyed all the Queen cells but apparently not... I found her on May 13th. The colony had swarmed on May 8th

 

[italic63]

For your small colony hopefully you have then in 3 or 4 frame nucleus box or have dummied them down if in a BB and infilled at least 2/3's of the space with insulation for them to thrive.

Yes I have them dummied down (they are called diaphragms here in Italy) either side inside a 10 frame brood box. No insulation tough. The temperatures here are around 23 in the day and 13-16 in the night. Should I add something?

 

[italic63]

How long had it been since she emerged when the video was taken on the 13th ?
The VQ takes 4 or 5 days to mature in the colony before mating so she isn't going to mate for at least that time after emerging. Cool weather will slow the process up, in my eyes you are being to rash and she it at the least due another 14 days before considering what next, in the mean time if the other colony is strong and can afford to give up some brood then rob one or two brood frames with no live bees and give to the VQ colony. If possible give one frame with sealed emerging brood and one with eggs and young larvae, if they are without the queen then they will soon let you know.

Unfortunately the second colony is small. Good brood pattern and laying queen but only on 2/3 frames and to be honest they are growing so quickly I didn't want to disturb them

 

[user 819]

Two frames of bees isn't much so every bit of heat saved helps them even in you warmer climate, we here in the UK are still sub 17c day time and cooler nights, however this seems to be changing today onwards and we might see 21c in the week ahead.

 

[user 819]

Thanks...yes from what you are all saying it sound like I'm jumping the gun a bit. I have no idea when she emerged exactly. I thought I'd destroyed all the Queen cells but apparently not... I found her on May 13th. The colony had swarmed on May 8th

We can assume then that the 12/13th isn't far off then when she emerged, so she won't go out to mate until at least the 17/18th.

 

[italic63]

We can assume then that the 12/13th isn't far off then when she emerged, so she won't go out to mate until at least the 17/18th.

So today being the 26th does that mean there is still hope that she may be present and start laying?

 

[user 819]

Unfortunately the second colony is small. Good brood pattern and laying queen but only on 2/3 frames and to be honest they are growing so quickly I didn't want to disturb them

No they certainly can't spare any brood or bees as they are only just in a slightly better predicament. To be honest you shouldn't be doing much with any of them except making sure they have food and room for laying.

Both of your colonies are very weak even here in the UK which is much cooler bees are well and truly expanding with some on double broods and even some Demareed with single broods on several frames of brood.
Our issue is the rain and cool unpredictable weather but the sun is trying to shine now so the next week is looking better.

 

[user 819]

So today being the 26th does that mean there is still hope that she may be present and start laying?

It is too soon to worry and you certainly shouldn't be looking inside at all to be honest.
You know a new VQ was seen on the 13th, looking at her small and unmated, likely only just emerged that day or maybe in the previous 12- 24hrs, don't fiddle with them at all just make sure they have food.
Looking at the probable dates and timing I would say she has so far only had an 8 day window before going out to mate so much too soon to be fretting over her.

One also has to say whether the colony is viable due it's current size, summer will be over before they are at strength.

Do you have access to a mentor or help form another beekeeper locally ?

 

[italic63]

It is too soon to worry and you certainly shouldn't be looking inside at all to be honest.
You know a new VQ was seen on the 13th, looking at her small and unmated, likely only just emerged that day or maybe in the previous 12- 24hrs, don't fiddle with them at all just make sure they have food.
Looking at the probable dates and timing I would say she has so far only had an 8 day window before going out to mate so much too soon to be fretting over her.

One also has to say whether the colony is viable due it's current size, summer will be over before they are at strength.

Do you have access to a mentor or help form another beekeeper locally ?

Ok thanks. Yes I have people here today can guide

 

[italic63]

Ok thanks. Yes I have people here today can guide

That not "today"

 

[user 819]

That not "today"

It is hard to give advice from another country far away, advice and help (if you need it) is better from a local beekeeper who can help you and see what your current situation is. Especially as both colonies are so small, there is often a reason why they are so small.
We know you have said one swarmed but it only left behind a very small colony to survive and they couldn't have been very populated in the first place.
What line of of A.m bees do you have ?