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[Murox]

Taken from the Grantham Journal Published: 27 May 2019

'Children are now tyrants' said Socrates - he's wrong

“Children; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. They no longer rise when elders enter the room, they contradict their parents and tyrannize their teachers. Children are now tyrants.”

You may be thinking that this quote is a disgruntled parent, frustrated teacher or just someone expressing their lack of hope for this new generation. However, you couldn’t be more wrong. This quote is taken from Socrates, circa 470BC.

The reason I have referenced such a quote is that, although it may be 2,488 years old, it could not be more relevant today.

Young people nowadays are shown in a light that portrays them as useless, unengaged, lazy, rude – the list goes on. Although, when put in the context of history and the thoughts of people of the past, Socrates being an example, it’s clear to see that this misconception has always been thus – a misconception.

Little did Socrates know that the youth of his people he was referencing, would go on to lead developments in mathematics, astronomy, language – even invent something so insignificant yet widely used as the alarm clock.

My point being, if Socrates, one of the greatest thinkers in history, could be so misled about the young people of his day, surely our current stereotypes are destined to be false.

All it takes is a simple look at the youth of today to debunk our misconceptions.

Greta Thunberg is a 16-year-old environmental activist who has sparked passion and influence over the current environmentalist marches happening globally. She is a young person who is extremely engaged in global issues and wants a better future for the younger generation, of which she is one.

Young people are driven. They fight for what they believe in, based off soaked up knowledge they are exposed to regularly through education. The choices and decisions made by the politicians and the powerful may be made by older generations, but the young people are the ones that have to bear the consequences. Young people are the potential of our future and they don’t deserve to be discounted.

Misconceptions and sweeping stereotypes are commonplace in today’s society. But don’t let those of young people fall into your repertoire.

Column by King's School student Callum Sutton

 

[ShinySideUp]

Murox, I could not agree more that there are indeed responsible members of the youth society who look to their future and what they can make of themselves but in truth, they seem to be very much the exception. We live in a relatively quiet and rural village but there is quite a large element of 'kids' who use their cars as passive/aggressive weapons against society, take drugs (and I don't mean a bit of hash) and are generally threatening in their behaviour. These people have no respect for authority or society in general and treat everyone as if they were stupid and bent on ruining what they see as harmless fun but what everyone else sees as purely anti-social activity. Many are illiterate as can be witnessed by Facebook posts. They consider the police as sworn enemies and will willingly attack fireman and ambulance people because it's 'fun' to video people dying because they can't be treated properly at the roadside. Say what you will, but many of the youth of today are a drain on society and their parents, and THEIR parents are guilty of almost criminal neglect in their parental duties. Basically, these people are scum and should be treated as such and not as victims of oppression by 'the man'. There should be no 'naughty step' for these folk. Yes, I did get the cane at school for playing truant for an afternoon, I never did it again and learned my lesson. What they do now is suspend a pupil and send them home where their parents scrawl badly-written letters of complaint about how badly their little darlings have been treated without any attempt to find out the facts. If the school had sent me home my parents would have assumed (probably correctly) that I had done something very wrong and I would have been punished accordingly and not have the teachers be assumed to be idiots and in the wrong. I wouldn't be a secondary school teacher for all the tea in China, and the way it seems to be going, working in a primary school is no picnic either.

To drive you have to have a licence, you have to register to vote, you have to jump through hoops to get your first credit card and you have to save money to get your first house but to have your first baby you need nothing but an open pair of legs, a working set of private parts, a couple of spare minutes and scant regard for who else is going to pay for your 'fun' because our badly-abused benefit system is always there. It is no surprise that having children for some people is a job that everyone else has to pay for and the quality of the product being produced is sadly lacking because it is being made from defective stock.

Rant over (for now).

 

[pargyle]

Misconceptions and sweeping stereotypes are commonplace in today’s society. But don’t let those of young people fall into your repertoire.

Column by King's School student Callum Sutton

But .... Socrates was 70 years old and familiar to most Athenians. His anti-democratic views had turned many in the city against him. Two of his students, Alcibiades and Critias, had twice briefly overthrown the democratic government of the city, instituting a reign of terror in which thousands of citizens were deprived of their property and either banished from the city or executed.

He was found guilty of a vaiety of crimes against the state and was executed by having to drink poison ... his words echoed down the centuries as the previous wealthy and highly democratic society of Greece degenerated over the subsequent centuries as his prophecies came to pass ...the young people did not save Greeece ... they contributed to its downfall ...

I would agree that there are shining examples amongst our youth of today ... but they are in the greater minority ... My generation is not blameless ... we have contributed to the present lack of social conscience and have allowed it to happen - yes, there are shining examples amongst all ages ... I just still feel that the balance tips more towards a younger generation who, despite their protests and demonstrations the vast majority just don't get it ....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

A few years ago now, I remember an elderly person glowering at a bunch of youngsters minding their own business and shouting "youngsters are so rude nowadays" before shouldering, without a please or an excuse me to the front of the queue.

 

[pargyle]

A few years ago now, I remember an elderly person glowering at a bunch of youngsters minding their own business and shouting "youngsters are so rude nowadays" before shouldering, without a please or an excuse me to the front of the queue.

YES ... there's a few ignorant old gits on the planet .... and I am equally disparaging when I come across them ....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

YES ... there's a few ignorant old gits on the planet .... and I am equally disparaging when I come across them ....

Maybe that's where the youngsters get it from?

 

[pargyle]

Maybe that's where the youngsters get it from?

Like was said initially .... the parents are at fault ...and remain so.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Like was said initially .... the parents are at fault

I think you missed my point - maybe not parents, or even grandparents but the way they are treated by other people in society.
My father's cousin was a right odious little man, minor civil servant who thought he was a big fish in our little pond. His attitude towards any young person was disgusting and I know that there are some around (and know for a fact their parents were decent people who raised their kids accordingly) whose questionable attitudes were down to the way they were treated by him.
You treat people like dirt and they'll react accordingly.

 

[victor meldrew]

Strange - the majority of the stupidity I've seen during the pestillence has been conducted by our 'state representatives' and most of the stupidity and selfishness been displayed by the older generations - many of the generation that throughout our lives have lectured us on how they knuckled down during the war and that we don't know we're born.

The war time generation of which I am a member , are mostly sheltered because of age and infirmity.
31st of October 2020 heralded the largest number of illegal raves of over 500 people.
Attendees displayed both stupidity and selfishness, I agree, however none of the pictures displayed in the media featured any Zimmers or wheel chairs !

 

[pargyle]

I think you missed my point - maybe not parents, or even grandparents but the way they are treated by other people in society.
My father's cousin was a right odious little man, minor civil servant who thought he was a big fish in our little pond. His attitude towards any young person was disgusting and I know that there are some around (and know for a fact their parents were decent people who raised their kids accordingly) whose questionable attitudes were down to the way they were treated by him.
You treat people like dirt and they'll react accordingly.

Yes ... there are odious people around still ... but ... was there/is there a whole generation of odious older people that are contributing to the lack of social conscience which seems to me to be evident in an awful lot of younger people ...or are we saying that a few odious people are poisoning another generation ?

 

[Murox]

Yes ... there are odious people around still ... but ... was there/is there a whole generation of odious older people that are contributing to the lack of social conscience which seems to me to be evident in an awful lot of younger people ...or are we saying that a few odious people are poisoning another generation ?

I think BOTH.

 

[victor meldrew]

I am one of the selfish wartime brigade !
not many of us were amongst the out break of illegal raves country wide at the weekend just gone !

 

[pargyle]

I am one of the selfish wartime brigade !
not many of us were amongst the out break of illegal raves country wide at the weekend just gone !

Initial estimates are that somewhere in excess of 25000 YOUNG people attended illegal raves over the weekend - one in Poplar had over 1000 in attendance and the police who tried to stop it were abused and their vehicles damaged. Age groups were 16 to 25. Ok it's not every young person in the Uk but those that were there showed an immense lack of any social responsibility... not good.

 

[Apple]

I think BOTH.

Young people eventually become old people.....

Then there are the ODIOUS ones, mostly whom it seems had a privileged education sponsored by wealthy parents at Eton!

Then there are the ODIOUS ones, mostly whom it seems had a privileged education at Eton, sponsored by wealthy parents !

Needless to say my school was approved.

Chons da

 

[Murox]

But .... Socrates was 70 years old and familiar to most Athenians. His anti-democratic views had turned many in the city against him. Two of his students, Alcibiades and Critias, had twice briefly overthrown the democratic government of the city, instituting a reign of terror in which thousands of citizens were deprived of their property and either banished from the city or executed.

He was found guilty of a vaiety of crimes against the state and was executed by having to drink poison ... his words echoed down the centuries as the previous wealthy and highly democratic society of Greece degenerated over the subsequent centuries as his prophecies came to pass ...the young people did not save Greeece ... they contributed to its downfall ...

I would agree that there are shining examples amongst our youth of today ... but they are in the greater minority ... My generation is not blameless ... we have contributed to the present lack of social conscience and have allowed it to happen - yes, there are shining examples amongst all ages ... I just still feel that the balance tips more towards a younger generation who, despite their protests and demonstrations the vast majority just don't get it ....

Under the Athenian system I am sure he was both guilty as charged and scapegoated. As an unconventional thinker who questioned the legitimacy and authority of many of the accepted beliefs of his time his teachings easily became targets. Athenians probably felt had offended Zeus and others.
Instead of running off when he had the chance, he accepted the court's verdict, claiming that “he owed it to the city under whose laws he had been raised to honour those laws to the letter.”
I'm not surprised "the vast majority just don't get it ...." “Young people are driven. They fight for what they believe in, based on soaked up knowledge they are exposed to regularly through education. The choices and decisions made by the politicians and the powerful may be made by older generations, but the young people are the ones that have to bear the consequences. Young people are the potential of our future …......................................”

 

[victor meldrew]

Young people eventually become old people.....

Then there are the ODIOUS ones, mostly whom it seems had a privileged education sponsored by wealthy parents at Eton!

Then there are the ODIOUS ones, mostly whom it seems had a privileged education at Eton, sponsored by wealthy parents !

Needless to say my school was approved.

Chons da

Can’t think why ?

 

[madasafish]

Strange - the majority of the stupidity I've seen during the pestillence has been conducted by our 'state representatives' and most of the stupidity and selfishness been displayed by the older generations - many of the generation that throughout our lives have lectured us on how they knuckled down during the war and that we don't know we're born.

You mean the older generations attending illegal raves, illegal parties and drinking themselves silly the night before a lockdown happens - as in Liverpool, etc.. ?

 

[pargyle]

. Young people are the potential of our future …......................................”

I'll tell you a story.... my wife was an infant school teacher ... she started teaching in Mexboroough, South Yorkshire in 1970 - a pretty poor community ... she taught, along with a classroom assistant, forty six 4 year olds ... this was a rough area ... the children had lice, a bath once a week, hand me downs and snotty noses but when she asked them to do something they did it .. Parent's rarely came into the classroom and when they did meet her their usual comment was along the lines of 'if he misbehaves Miss .. you let me know and I will sort him out when he gets home' ... she took (with one classroom assistant) all of them, by train, to York on a school trip ... they walked round York in a crocodile, went to Bettys for tea and visited the Debtors prison and she got all of them home, in one piece, without any mishaps or concerns at all..... Fast forward to her final teaching years in a private school where there were 12 in the class .,., who all thought that the world revolved around them and they could do as they wished, when they wished and had little concern for the teacher's authority. Discipline was missing 'Golden time' and inevitably the parent would be in the classroom the next day - not reinforcing the discipline but remonstrating because Little Johnny felt hard done by missing Golden time. We still have friends who are teaching (and who are headteachers) at infant level in State schools telling exactly the same story ...

I don't tar the whole of our youth with the same brush but I live across the road from the local college and every day I see groups of teenagers coming out of school with little or no sign of social distancing.

There has been a change in my lifetime ... I don't always blame the children ... as Dani said initially ... it starts in the cradle ...

Young people may be the potential of our future but if even some of these grow up with the attitude that the world owes them something and there is no real need to fear any retribution for their behaviour then I fear for the future of those that grow up around them WITH a social conscience.

 

[Murox]

I'll tell you a story.... my wife was an infant school teacher ... she started teaching in Mexboroough, South Yorkshire in 1970 - a pretty poor community ... she taught, along with a classroom assistant, forty six 4 year olds ... this was a rough area ... the children had lice, a bath once a week, hand me downs and snotty noses but when she asked them to do something they did it .. Parent's rarely came into the classroom and when they did meet her their usual comment was along the lines of 'if he misbehaves Miss .. you let me know and I will sort him out when he gets home' ... she took (with one classroom assistant) all of them, by train, to York on a school trip ... they walked round York in a crocodile, went to Bettys for tea and visited the Debtors prison and she got all of them home, in one piece, without any mishaps or concerns at all..... Fast forward to her final teaching years in a private school where there were 12 in the class .,., who all thought that the world revolved around them and they could do as they wished, when they wished and had little concern for the teacher's authority. Discipline was missing 'Golden time' and inevitably the parent would be in the classroom the next day - not reinforcing the discipline but remonstrating because Little Johnny felt hard done by missing Golden time. We still have friends who are teaching (and who are headteachers) at infant level in State schools telling exactly the same story ...

I don't tar the whole of our youth with the same brush but I live across the road from the local college and every day I see groups of teenagers coming out of school with little or no sign of social distancing.

There has been a change in my lifetime ... I don't always blame the children ... as Dani said initially ... it starts in the cradle ...

Young people may be the potential of our future but if even some of these grow up with the attitude that the world owes them something and there is no real need to fear any retribution for their behaviour then I fear for the future of those that grow up around them WITH a social conscience.

I don't tar the whole of our youth with the same brush but I live across the road from the local college and every day I see groups of teenagers coming out of school with little or no sign of social distancing. ...

Yes there has been huge change in our lifetimes and only some of it good. I think it must be very discouraging to see groups of young people each day apparently flouting a potentially life saving piece of advice re social distancing. I think social conscience is also a cultural thing which you have illustrated. I always blame the parents first.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Children are our future!? Well, that's just peachy. Still, so long as enough of 'em work sufficiently to pay my pension, I can cope. I paid my parents pension so I feel no guilt at all.

PS On the subject of raves, if there was a legal one near me post COVID, I think I might go; I've always wanted to.