Newbie from Kent

[Nighthaunt]

Hi All,
Have always wanted to keep bees from when I was a child, but with a change of job and more time available have decided that this will be the year I start.

I’ve been lucky that with Covid the local bee keepers association started their novices sessions late so have been to my first session and opened and handled a Hive and frames (loved every minute) which made me comfortable enough to order a hive and equipment (may be able to source a local NUC from the association). Will only have a single hive as will be sited in my Garden (urban environment) - any particular hints for urban gardening? Originally looked at a beehaus but after reading so much have gone with a 14x12 Cedar national.

our garden is about 40’ wide by 120’ long although rear is storage sheds for about 12’ - hive would be at back about 80’ from house - any potential problems or advice from more experienced keepers?

many thanks
Alex

 

[Erichalfbee]

Lovely garden.
Keeping bees in your garden is a joy.
The first thing to do if you have neighbours is to arrange an out apiary to move them to at a moments notice if you ever need to
Happy beekeeping.

 

[Nighthaunt]

Lovely garden.
Keeping bees in your garden is a joy.
The first thing to do if you have neighbours is to arrange an out apiary to move them to at a moments notice if you ever need to
Happy beekeeping.

Fingers crossed we’ve got 6’ high fences all round - and hive should be some distance from any other house, have to try and ensure the bees fly upwards. Thankfully we’re in an open (gaps) square formed by terraces of houses (were end of terrace in middle of long side) - means very well protected from worst of weather but plenty of gaps for bees to transit through between houses and away - a short distance away there is a large park which half is being returned to wildflower meadow

 

[Erichalfbee]

Still do it though. If you lose a swarm into a neighbours garden you might not be popular and you can bet your bottom dollar if a neighbour gets stung it will be your bees. Don’t get me wrong enjoy your bees but have a plan from the outset.
one colony is not enough. You need two and when you are splitting for swarm management there will be four for a while.

 

[Nighthaunt]

Good advice - the club apiary is about 5 miles away so fingers crossed could accommodate in short term. There are a few beekeepers locally (not on my road but someone has a hive in their garden about 1/2 mile away that I know of as a minimum) so really hoping - probably a vain hope however.

I’m hoping to be able to manage a single colony with support from the local club rather than being fully self sufficient, although may have to reconsider.
Many thanks for the great advice - any other tips?
Alex

 

[ericbeaumont]

Will only have a single hive as will be sited in my Garden (urban environment) - any particular hints for urban gardening?

I’m hoping to be able to manage a single colony with support from the local club rather than being fully self sufficient, although may have to reconsider.

Beginner mistake number one: starting with one colony.

Dani suggested you run two but you're sticking to one for no good reason and without knowing why two is the minimum for effective management. I've lost count of the number of beginners who were recommended to run two, started with one, came unstuck and recognised too late why two would have saved the day.

It may be that you're unsure of your ability to stay in control of the bees and that two colonies will overwhelm you, but stepping out of your comfort zone is a natural consequence of taking up beekeeping, so you may as well get used to it.

You have 120 feet! I have about 10, kept five colonies here at one time and never had a neighbour problem: rule is to keep bees of good temper.

Why have you chosen 14x12?
Have you attended a beginner beekeeping course?

 

[drdrday]

Welcome Alex
Sounds like you've done some thinking before committing which is always a good idea! A 14x12 should be much easier to manage than the beehaus (don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Omlet's Eglu, but I think they missed the mark with the beehaus).
Having the support of your local association will be helpful and having handled their bees already you should have at least a rough idea of what you're getting yourself into.
I echo the other comments on having a second hive. However I started with just one and plans to double up in my second year through the artificial swarm control I knew I'd probably have to do. Leaves things a little risky getting through the first couple of years, especially winter, but as long as youre aware of the risks and once you're up to two hives you can feel much more confident.
Just make sure, even if you do decide to start with just one hive that you have enough kit for double the number of hives at all times - you'll definitely need it!
Good luck and enjoy what will no doubt become an obsession!

 

[Nighthaunt]

Beginner mistake number one: starting with one colony.

Dani suggested you run two but you're sticking to one for no good reason and without knowing why two is the minimum for effective management. I've lost count of the number of beginners who were recommended to run two, started with one, came unstuck and recognised too late why two would have saved the day.

It may be that you're unsure of your ability to stay in control of the bees and that two colonies will overwhelm you, but stepping out of your comfort zone is a natural consequence of taking up beekeeping, so you may as well get used to it.

You have 120 feet! I have about 10, kept five colonies here at one time and never had a neighbour problem: rule is to keep bees of good temper.

Why have you chosen 14x12?
Have you attended a beginner beekeeping course?

I waited to attend the local association course before ordering anything so didn’t go in blind and was comfortable handling the ladies. In terms of the 14 x 12 was after having a chat with the experts who said although I could run a brood and a half hive it effectively doubles the number of frames to check, and so have recommended the larger size for starting.

I will have another chat this weekend with them about running a single hive, I’m aware it means I would be lacking the ability to compare between hives, and to easily requeen (transferring brood frame from healthy hive) - it’s one of domestic restrictions at the minute in addition to not having ordered anything until after lessons so I might be able to get one NUC of local bees, 2 is extremely unlikely, realise could artificially swarm but danger is would end up trying to overwinter two weak hives rather than one healthier hive, although do agree two hives would be ideal and if opportunity arises may grab a poly 14x12 National as a second hive.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Nighthaunt, it is good to hear from a beginner that has thought about beekeeping before buying and has answers to the standard comments asked of beginners here. The advice you have been given above is all very relevant and worth heeding especially the risks of running with only one hive but as long as you understand the risks and can get through the first winter I'm sure you will want to increase next year when you gain the confidence.
As Eric has said......... make sure you have more equipment than you think you will need ...... as you always will need it!

 

[user 819]

Two hives will be required, it is fact at some stage #1 will show signs of swarm or will need splitting. 14 x 12 doesn't mean no to swarming.

 

[Nighthaunt]

It’s good advice on two hives - I’m starting with one as can only possibly source one NUC this year, and can then convince the other half to let me expand to two hives, was never the plan to remain at one hive but it’s a case of aligning what I can do to domestic restrictions and availability.

ironically this was one of the reasons was originally looking at the beehaus as could use as 2 hives in one - and then poly NUCs for swarm control (I’m aware not to ask which poly hive/NUC is best ) but everyone on forums are so negative about the beehaus went with a traditional Carson cedar 14 x 12 National.

I will probably go with a poly hive for the second hive (still 14 x 12 so can interchange parts) - starting with a Buckfast locally bred NUC hopefully and will go from there, at some point down the line with probably convert to the native black bees (the association apiary manager has a few colonies and is looking to strengthen them locally, including possibly AI) - so this is the first stage in starting, and will expand as resourcing allows to two hives, and then possibly more outside.

Realise it’s ideal to start with two as it makes it much easier to manage as can transfer brood frames as needed should one become Queenless etc...) but not currently an option sadly. Will order a full set of additional frames for the hive so have a complete spare set

 

[Nighthaunt]

Two hives will be required, it is fact at some stage #1 will show signs of swarm or will need splitting. 14 x 12 doesn't mean no to swarming.

Not at all, mainly where a lot of colonies now end up as brood and a half should halve the number of frames to be checked (11 instead of 22) and was the advice from the local association

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not at all, mainly where a lot of colonies now end up as brood and a half should halve the number of frames to be checked (11 instead of 22) and was the advice from the local association

brood and a half is never the answer, neither really is replacing that with 14x12 - that just lacks imagination, if your bees need the space go straight up to double brood - a far more manageable system

 

[drdrday]

...realise could artificially swarm but danger is would end up trying to overwinter two weak hives rather than one healthier hive...

That's always the dilemma - quantity or quality. Personally I opted for one big healthy hive to get through my first winter and then increased to two in my second year, but I know others choose to split as soon as they can in the first year.
Sounds like you have a good offer of advice and help from your local association though so I'm sure they'd be willing to offer a helping hand (or rather bees or brood) if you run into trouble while you're still at one hive.

 

[Nighthaunt]

That's always the dilemma - quantity or quality. Personally I opted for one big healthy hive to get through my first winter and then increased to two in my second year, but I know others choose to split as soon as they can in the first year.
Sounds like you have a good offer of advice and help from your local association though so I'm sure they'd be willing to offer a helping hand (or rather bees or brood) if you run into trouble while you're still at one hive.

sounds like pretty much what I will be doing. Although can’t quite plump for 2 cedar hives with the same frames should be interchangeable - and can use (now empty and same frame size) NUCs for swarm control.
I seem to have spent months reading on the various hives, even the thermosolar hive for Varroa control, but went with the association recommendation to start as matches the ones in the club apiary (although also have a hop bar and brood and a half hives in the learning section so we can experience a range of hives).

I must admit not so much worried about collecting any honey, it’s more for the pleasure of keeping bees that I’m going to enjoy I think.

 

[Swarm]

Oh it's a pleasure alright.

 

[W0otz]

Hi Alex, fellow Ashford newbee here and I think we probably met on Saturday, but I'm terrible with names and faces! If the park you're talking about is Queen Mother's park then you can't be far from me. No bees yet, but I've gone for 2 14x12 cedar hives (and a spare) - plan is to keep 2 hives on average.
Your beekeeping aims sound fairly similar to mine - Garden hive or 2 for pleasure rather than honey, local bees and like the idea of keeping native black bees etc. Hopefully we can help each other out if needed.

 

[Nighthaunt]

Hi Alex, fellow Ashford newbee here and I think we probably met on Saturday, but I'm terrible with names and faces! If the park you're talking about is Queen Mother's park then you can't be far from me. No bees yet, but I've gone for 2 14x12 cedar hives (and a spare) - plan is to keep 2 hives on average.
Your beekeeping aims sound fairly similar to mine - Garden hive or 2 for pleasure rather than honey, local bees and like the idea of keeping native black bees etc. Hopefully we can help each other out if needed.

Im down Willesborough end so the Hythe road recreation ground - more than happy to help, nice to have another Urban beekeeper in town
Sounds like same plan as me, starting with one as hoping will be able to source a NUC, although not likely to get two, but can hopefully artificially swarm next year for the second hive
I’m quite looking forward to this weekends session and hive building - just waiting for mine to arrive. Might give poly a go for the second hive to see how they compare.

 

[W0otz]

Im down Willesborough end so the Hythe road recreation ground - more than happy to help, nice to have another Urban beekeeper in town
Sounds like same plan as me, starting with one as hoping will be able to source a NUC, although not likely to get two, but can hopefully artificially swarm next year for the second hive
I’m quite looking forward to this weekends session and hive building - just waiting for mine to arrive. Might give poly a go for the second hive to see how they compare.

The insulation benefits of poly seem great, but I was mostly put off by the lack of standardisation. Some are top beespace, some are bottom; due to the thickness of the walls some either take fewer frames or have a larger external footprint than cedar nationals etc. Basically it seems like, unless you're very careful, once you've picked a brand of poly hive you're somewhat locked into that system. Also despite being dense polystyrene they still seem fragile - crack if dropped, easy to accidentally nick/damage with a hive tool, get eaten by wax moths (not sure how common this is though...). I might give a poly roof on cedar boxes a go though for the improved roof insulation.
There's not much of a cost difference either, especially if you get cedar seconds. Maisemore sale 26th-28th June if you do plan to get any more kit.

 

[user 819]

14 x 12 I found an abomination, very heavy if used as a super to have drawn comb and a bugger to uncap and fit in the extractor.
Am with JBM in deep Nat broods easier to double brood and Demeree as well as extracting.