New foundation being eaten

[Lindylou]

Hi all,
We have just done our first inspection - all looks fine to my untrained eye. Found the queen and some eggs but no brood as yet. What we did find though was on one of the outer frames the bees seemed to have eaten at least a quarter of the foundation, leaving a big gap. Is this normal and if so what are they doing?

 

[Foxylad]

They regularly chew holes in the foundation to short cut though the frames.

Swarms are especially prone to this.

They will rebuild it when needed.

 

[Teemore]

This year I have noticed that where frames are orientated the cold way, the bees have not chewed through foundation to the same extent as in frames orientated the warm way (parallel to the entrance).

 

[flemage]

I have my frames cold way always and found they had chewed through a fair number over winter. I had to replace them as to bad to repair.

They dont seem to be doing it currently though

 

[Loolabelle1]

The more senior beeks at our apiary suggest cutting a triangle out of each corner, at the top, when you put the new foundation in. They say it is less likely they make holes elsewhere. A shortcut to save them going all the way round the side or over the top

 

[REDWOOD]

It is also said that they do this for air circulation

 

[DorsetB]

An old boy taught me years ago to trim the foundation vertically so as to leave a bee space (ish) between the edge of the foundation and the frame.

The bees move around more quickly, the hive & supers get ventilated better, the wax gets drawn faster, and when they are done, they close the gap for you, making the whole assembly more rigid.

One added bonus I have discovered over the years is that in spring any supercedure cells tend to get made on the edge of the foundation (sort of Miller style) which they have closed up, in other words they are on the wax built entirely by them rather than the wax drawn out on manmade foundation: easier to spot and easier to remove. I very rarely find any queen cells in the centre of the frame, and I get very little to no chewing vandalism!

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Hi all,
We have just done our first inspection - all looks fine to my untrained eye. Found the queen and some eggs but no brood as yet. What we did find though was on one of the outer frames the bees seemed to have eaten at least a quarter of the foundation, leaving a big gap. Is this normal and if so what are they doing?

I assume you have a swarm if you only have eggs. When hiving swarms I cannot recall the foundation being removed although colonies do do it sometime. Have you fed the colony at all or very much? A swarm is ideal for producing wax and with feed they will produce loads of it and get plenty of comb drawn without needing to remove it from elsewhere.

Adam

 

[bobster]

Just a thought, could it have been a mouse?

Were there bits of bees in the hive at all, or chewed foundation?.

Bobster

 

[oliver90owner]

From a previous post: Am delighted to say that we picked up our first nuc last night.


It would appear that someone has supplied you with a split, not a nuc.

If you have installed it in a full hive with a full complement of frames with foundation, I am not really surprised. Could even be a mouse with such a small colony in a large box (doubt it, but it is a possibility if frames are cold way and colony is to one side).

Follow Mandy's advice and you will learn a few unwanted facts of life in the world of beekeeping.

RAB

 

[herefordshirehoney]

An old boy taught me years ago to trim the foundation vertically so as to leave a bee space (ish) between the edge of the foundation and the frame.

The bees move around more quickly, the hive & supers get ventilated better, the wax gets drawn faster, and when they are done, they close the gap for you, making the whole assembly more rigid.

One added bonus I have discovered over the years is that in spring any supercedure cells tend to get made on the edge of the foundation (sort of Miller style) which they have closed up, in other words they are on the wax built entirely by them rather than the wax drawn out on manmade foundation: easier to spot and easier to remove. I very rarely find any queen cells in the centre of the frame, and I get very little to no chewing vandalism!

Interesting - do you do this on your supers and brood? I've got no drawn foundation yet (well no bee's technically till the nucs arrive). Do I try this in my first year or leave it till i've got the basics first? Do you keep them all on the right or the left hand side? As it's poly is langstroth brood and dandant supers so they dont have grove running down the sides.

 

[MandF]

From a previous post: Am delighted to say that we picked up our first nuc last night.


It would appear that someone has supplied you with a split, not a nuc.

If you have installed it in a full hive with a full complement of frames with foundation, I am not really surprised. Could even be a mouse with such a small colony in a large box (doubt it, but it is a possibility if frames are cold way and colony is to one side).

Follow Mandy's advice and you will learn a few unwanted facts of life in the world of beekeeping.

RAB

Not quite sure who Mandy is? Anyway, RAB old chap, when it suits you, you take pleasure in telling us how the bees know best, they have survived for millions of years blah blah blah (ie when they propolise to close gaps).

Now, using that logic, if the bees are making holes in foundation, could it possibly be that they know best what environment they need in the hive at any one time? Could it possibly be that they want a bit more air circulation in the hive?

So RAB, old chap, please teach us why we should ignore the bees efforts to increase circulation ( or whatever it is their instinct is telling them to do when they make holes in wax/foundation) and shove a slab of wood in their hive in this case to stop them doing this, and yet we should listen to them when they want to block off feeder holes in feeding/crown boards?

Apart from the obvious one - that it suits your agenda, obviously.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Not quite sure who Mandy is?

Suspect Mandy is a victim of an automatic spell - checker, MandF.

D

 

[DorsetB]

Interesting - do you do this on your supers and brood? I've got no drawn foundation yet (well no bee's technically till the nucs arrive). Do I try this in my first year or leave it till i've got the basics first? Do you keep them all on the right or the left hand side? As it's poly is langstroth brood and dandant supers so they dont have grove running down the sides.

I do this on the brood frames and super frames, and make a gap on both edges of the foundation. You're right about the groove of course, and the whole assembly feels a little more "floppy" than assembling say a National frame, even when wired. You need to handle the frames a little carefully until the bees build them out and seal the wax to the frame.

 

[oliver90owner]

Now, using that logic, if the bees are making holes in foundation, could it possibly be that they know best what environment they need in the hive at any one time?

Given even the merest of thought, on the subject, might have enlightened you, or possibly not. No. It's a no-brainer, think about it, and you might stop making silly comments like the above.

 

[tonybloke]

I don't see much in the way of chewing wax in my top bee space hives, perhaps it's due to the bees having easy access (across the top of the frames) to the rest of the hive
top bee space also allows better air circulation in the colony

 

[Poly Hive]

I don't see it either but I use good foundation and there is the suspect I think.

PH

 

[BBG]

Hi all,
We have just done our first inspection - all looks fine to my untrained eye. Found the queen and some eggs but no brood as yet. What we did find though was on one of the outer frames the bees seemed to have eaten at least a quarter of the foundation, leaving a big gap. Is this normal and if so what are they doing?

They make holes because they're a social insect and like to see each other and communicate while they work.

Better than shouting between rooms!

The alleged cold way - ours have brood front to back on OMF and arranged the "cold way".

We use KBS foundation and think that's why they eat some.

Have you ever tasted the cheap stuff from lesser suppliers - makes you sick!

 

[oliver90owner]

top bee space also allows better air circulation in the colony

Why, might I ask? (edited -I suppose no slotted Q/E directly on the brood frames might be one reason) This thing about holes in foundation for ventilation is a bit wasted on me - there should be a bee space all around the frames - top bottom and sides. Plenty of space forair (or bees) to go around the frames but I suppose they might make short cuts when it is undrawn foundation (yet another reason for a not fitting a full complement of frames with a tiny colony in a large box!).

One thing I would agree with is that in a natural colony, there would be a bee space all around the comb sides (apart from attacment points), but no holes at the tops of the comb, where it would be securely fixed to the ceiling, whatever that may be.

Another case of it suiting the keeper rather than the bees - it worked OK but the bees obviously didn't need the circulation around the top-most extremities. Perhaps an argument for fitting frsh supers immediately above the brood area.

RAB

 

[MandF]

top bee space also allows better air circulation in the colony

This thing about holes in foundation for ventilation is a bit wasted on me - there should be a bee space all around the frames - top bottom and sides. Plenty of space forair (or bees) to go around the frames but I suppose they might make short cuts when it is undrawn foundation (yet another reason for a not fitting a full complement of frames with a tiny colony in a large box!).

And if it is wasted on you, you simply dismiss it? Thats one way to think about it, and it suits your agenda of course.

The other way to think about it is that they DO want more ventilation, for reasons your human brain cannot understand, but basically RAB, who cares about WHY they do it, the fact is, they do it. Putting a dummy board doesnt allow them to do it, and they want to do it. Apply just a little bit of thought, the bees know best, etc etc.

And so far, the negatives for using foundation vs dummy board are what? That the bees can chew holes if they want (I have never had this)?

Still outweighed by the positives in my book (and thinking about it), that they can expand as and when they want to.

So, can anyone offer a benefit, from the bees perspective, of using a dummy board (not divider) over a frame of foundation? Or is he going to keep sniping and making snide comments without backing up his OPINION (for it is one).