New boiler

[Poly Hive]

We have installed a new boiler here (March) and the latest gas reading gave us a credit on our gas of £450. Which they are returning to us!

Eon tell us our usage has dropped 50%.

Does it pay to replace an old boiler... in our instance a definite yes.

Shame we missed out on the grant but we are well pleased as it stands.

PH

 

[RoofTops]

Condensing type I assume. I have heard they don't last that long but from the reduction in your bill it will pay for itself soon enough.

 

[Brosville]

You did the right thing!The old boiler has to be "g" rated (not all old boilers are!), and I suspect the present "boiler scrappage" scheme may be another Warmfront/EST/Clearskies/MCS fiddle.......... this eejit government insists that the installers/suppliers for such a scheme have to be members of assorted "semi independent" trade bodies (many of which just happen to be run by donors to the Liebour Party), kerrrching!
THEN the boiler has to be approved (kerrrching again!), THEN the suppliers/fitter have to be approved by a semi-independent quango (kerrrching!), so that they will immediately push prices for those on the scheme towards the stratosphere (because we CAN!) - kerrrtrebleching!
Nothing to do with safety or maintaining standards, everything to do with a lot of very grubby people making lots of OUR money with government's agreement and blessing.............
If you doubt the veracity of my little tirade, just google "Warmfront scams"

 

[m100]

Unless you had a really, really crap boiler you'll be moving from something with around 60-70% peak efficiency (common say 20 years ago) to one with a 'claimed' 90+% efficiency.

But does it really save anything?

Taking my current gas bill with a condensing boiler (SEDBUK 'A' 90.7%) fitted about five years it would require about seven years to payback the current capital cost of a replacement boiler, totally neglecting any financing charges or costs associated with installation - and that's with just cavity wall insulation, about 8 inches of fibreglass in the loft and no double glazing, 450ft above sea level on a windswept hill in the freezing north of England.

Also just a boiler change doesn't always achieve the improvements often claimed. Unless you are prepared to seriously compromise on room comfort with lower temperatures, or your radiators were oversized to start with then with a condensing boiler you'll need much bigger radiators fitting (or singles changed for doubles)

This is because to gain all the benefits of a condensing boiler the return water temperature (water that has gone through the radiators and is about to enter the boiler again for reheating) has to be as low as possible, other wise your boiler will not be operating in the condensing region - basically a bigger proportion of the waste heat will still be exiting via the the waste flue.

Previously you'd have designed radiator sizes for around a 90 deg C feed 70 deg return, a condensing boiler ideally needs 75 deg C feed, 65 return (or less if possible) 45 deg C return temps are about the best you can ever get, and for these you need massive radiators such as found in underfloor heating (or thermal stores).

Of course if you get boiler installed by the likes of British Gas or the a Warmfront contractor you'll *never* achieve savings that repay even the capital costs let alone the costs of financing. The sooner more money for improvements goes very significantly improved levels of insulation or total housing stock replacement the better. Wasting it with administration and vastly inflated installation costs is a disgrace.

But the fundamental problem now is the UK has a massive private housing and nearly all the public sector housing has been sold off and is in 'private' hands. Rebuilding and replacing the current housing stock isn't really going to happen. Ever. You'll certainly see 1950's housing around in 2050, almost unchanged and leaking heat like a cave.

 

[Poly Hive]

The old boiler was 20 years + old.

We have changed some rads, put thermostats on all of them and the figures for us speak for themselves.

No we do not have much in the way of insulation and I can't see much of a way of doing a lot in that line bar replace windows which we canna afford at this time.

PH

 

[jimbeekeeper]

We have changed some rads, put thermostats on all of them

PH

I suspect that there are many factors that have contributed to your saving. Yes the boiler being newer will have helped, and also the TRV's, but is some of that physiological, in that you have turned things down more thus saving more?

Also even an old boiler benefits from a service, particularly oil fired systems.


Also yes you (Eon) state 50% reduction, and a credit of £450, but is that because you had over paid previously through DD?

 

[Poly Hive]

The previous annual bill over the last three years was roughly £2600/anum.

We were paying £220 per month DD which was on target for the previous annual figure and the last three readings showed a constant rise in credit until the meter was read on Monday. We are read every time as we are commercial.

Have we turned things down? Not really. Though during the summer we were able to run the heating in a more controlled manner which of course helps.

As all I have to go on are the bills and Eon telling us we are down by 50% it all adds up to a big smile here.

PH

 

[jimbeekeeper]

well enjoy your saving

But dont stop there, look for other things, "every little helps"

 

[VEG]

More money in the bee keeping pot

 

[m100]

The Eon saying a reduction of 50% confuses me still - 450 quid reduction on a previous 2600 spend is about 17%, not far off what you would expect with the boiler efficiency improvements if it were running on a more or less continuous basis, with the burner modulated to its lowest level and the return water temps sufficiently low to allow fully condensing mode.

Can't help but think why the hell you need the central heating on in summer though! Visitors from the tropics?

Summer 2009 was generally crap but the mean temperatures have still been around 1 deg above the 1971-2000 averages throughout the year, and noticeably higher in some months than those in 2008 and so a reduced energy usage would be expected.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/anomalygraphs/index.html#

That is if you believe the met office, although their historic records seem better than their forecasts at times. An Indian summer they said.

 

[Brosville]

the point I was trying to make is that if anyone is tempted by the scrappage scheme - shop around before leaping in - it is very likely that you can get the same boiler supplied and competently fitted at a price considerably less than one "in the scheme" as all the finagling around government schemes often leads to real ripoff prices being charged! (even after taking the grant into account- witness the Warmfront debacle.......).
Other advice is take all the insulation you can get -there are bags of grants,"£1 a roll" offers from the likes of N-Power etc - and zoning and thermostats are real energy savers too!

 

[jimbeekeeper]

the point I was trying to make is that if anyone is tempted by the scrappage scheme - shop around

That was very true of the car scrap page scheme, a waste of time and money!

Very true about the insulation, I bought loads from focus at about 90p per role, but remember a couple of points.

1 you still need ventilation in your roof area, so don’t block soffit vents etc,

2 either lag well tanks and pies in the loft or keep a space under the tank fee of insulation to let some heat in to keep the tank from freezing.

 

[Frisbee]

My central heating boiler needs replacing, every time the man comes round to fix something else, he reminds me........then goes on to tell me to hang on to it for as long as I can because the one I replace it with won't last like this one has............

Frisbee

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Are you sure he saying that?

or is he saying "dont get a new one or I will not have work fixing your old pile of rubbish"?

Or "It is not the old boiler I come round for, it is you"

But you might be correct that "they dont make them like they used to"

 

[Poly Hive]

lagging...

We have a wonderful guest here at the moment of which more another time and he kicked me into lagging the immersion tank as it was to be honest naked with the remnants of the lagging jacket on the floor.

So. I wrapped it as per his advice in tin foil. Then wrapped it in a total of three duvets.

Result? The aforementioned boiler runs the immersion as another rad. Well after a bit of a struggle, switch mounted wrong way up, and checking by draining off all the hot water to make sure the electric immersion was OFF.

Water still too hot to touch in mid afternoon with the boiler off at 9am.

What I call a result and a real success.

PH

 

[Frisbee]

Are you sure he saying that?

or is he saying "dont get a new one or I will not have work fixing your old pile of rubbish"?

Or "It is not the old boiler I come round for, it is you"

But you might be correct that "they dont make them like they used to"

I think he's telling the truth, the last few things that have needed doing were more the system than the boiler. The whole system is over 20 years old and he put that in, so when it gets done it will be the lot again (gotta save up for it)

And I'd put good money on the fact that he is not lusting after me.....

Frisbee

 

[VEG]

Frisbee maybe he has seen you in the you tube vid with your rubber gloves on

 

[Hombre]

it was to be honest naked with the remnants of the lagging jacket on the floor.

So. I wrapped it as per his advice in tin foil. Then wrapped it in a total of three duvets.

If I was you PH, I would ensure that there is no copper/foil contact otherwise your tank will corrode through galvanic action. I certainly hope that you really meant that it was wrapped in three duvets and then in tin-foil, not quite as you stated. Avoid metal to metal contact or you could regret it sooner than you might think.

 

[Poly Hive]

No worries it's a temp fix until we replace it with a properly insulated one.

Thanks for the heads up.

PH

 

[plumber]

poly hive

forget the price you are paying or saving look at your gas consumption
year on year as a guide