Navigation in A.M.M ?

[BaconWizard]

My google-fu has failed me.
Can anyone point me towards any studies of navigation specifically in AMM?

Since they are known for flying in cloudy and rainy conditions it seems to me that they must have something else going-on that A.M do not.

 

[Ian123]

Since they are known for flying in cloudy and rainy conditions it seems to me that they must have something else going-on that A.M do not.

I’m not sure many studies have been done on wishful thinking

 

[user 20297]

My google-fu has failed me.
Can anyone point me towards any studies of navigation specifically in AMM?

Since they are known for flying in cloudy and rainy conditions it seems to me that they must have something else going-on that A.M do not.

It may be more of an inclination to give it a go in less than perfect weather rather than specialised skills....she who dares wins.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

since they are known for flying in cloudy and rainy conditions it seems to me that they must have something else going-on that A.M do not.

why?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Is it not known that black bees warm up quicker and even when it’s not sunny.
Probably not the answer to the question but it stands to reason
Amm type have more hairs I know because I’ve counted them

 

[Blunt Spike]

It may be more of an inclination to give it a go in less than perfect weather rather than specialised skills....she who dares wins.

This would be my guess too. Probably all honey bees have the same navigational skills, its just some that choose to work in more inclement weather.

Do you (the OP) lie in bed thinking "what obscure questions can I ask next?" Your questions are certainly left field, but I like the fact they get people thinking and discussing

 

[BaconWizard]

This would be my guess too. Probably all honey bees have the same navigational skills, its just some that choose to work in more inclement weather.

Do you (the OP) lie in bed thinking "what obscure questions can I ask next?" Your questions are certainly left field, but I like the fact they get people thinking and discussing

LMAO!

I can certainly admit to lying in bed while (over)thinking. But I don't usually ask a question unless I have looked elsewhere for the answer and drawn a blank or want more.
I suspect that what makes my questions seem left-field is 2 things:

1) I enjoy knowledge for its own sake, and believe in the value of pure science. So if my brain has gone somewhere apropos of nothing specific, I indudge it.

2) I deliberately avoid including the context for why I'm asking something; there are too many individuals who simply cannot live with themselves unless they can demonstrate their superior manhood by commenting and making unasked-for judgements about every potential aspect of a question, EXCEPT THE ONE BEING ASKED-FOR! I assume it's an inedquacy compensation thing.

But anyway I find it hugely frustrating so I attempt to avoid it; perhaps that makes some of my questions seem "out of nowhere" but I just don't want the noise.

Back to the subject in-hand: I know that bumblebees, stingless bees, leafcutter bees etc do not use the sun in the same way as A.M. While it seems fairly certain that Apis Cerana do. I was curious whether A.M.M might have something extra or different in their arsenal, although probably not.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I was curious whether A.M.M might have something extra or different in their arsenal,

A very dedicated fan club.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

A very dedicated fan club.

Know a few Gooner supporters, all in all by the sounds of things, many are a pretty unpleasant bunch

 

[Anduril]

As far as I know there aren't any scientific studies done, but at a guess, AMM might have more sensitive olfactory senses and if the flora is nearby then this would act as a trigger for early foraging, otherwise it may be just related to cleansing flights. This is just supposition.

 

[user 20297]

LMAO!

I can certainly admit to lying in bed while (over)thinking. But I don't usually ask a question unless I have looked elsewhere for the answer and drawn a blank or want more.
I suspect that what makes my questions seem left-field is 2 things:

1) I enjoy knowledge for its own sake, and believe in the value of pure science. So if my brain has gone somewhere apropos of nothing specific, I indudge it.

2) I deliberately avoid including the context for why I'm asking something; there are too many individuals who simply cannot live with themselves unless they can demonstrate their superior manhood by commenting and making unasked-for judgements about every potential aspect of a question, EXCEPT THE ONE BEING ASKED-FOR! I assume it's an inedquacy compensation thing.

But anyway I find it hugely frustrating so I attempt to avoid it; perhaps that makes some of my questions seem "out of nowhere" but I just don't want the noise.

Back to the subject in-hand: I know that bumblebees, stingless bees, leafcutter bees etc do not use the sun in the same way as A.M. While it seems fairly certain that Apis Cerana do. I was curious whether A.M.M might have something extra or different in their arsenal, although probably not.

All very well said. Thoughts and observations on bee behaviour that don't directly relate to productivity or efficiency are right up my street. There's tons of repeated and accepted lore in beekeeping. It's easy to say that you don't need to know the mechanism behind the behaviours of bees or to state that it's not something you've personally seen or think matters at all. But a genuinely interested person will wonder at this level of minutiae, and that will always get the thumbs-up from me.

 

[JamezF]

Know a few Gooner supporters, all in all by the sounds of things, many are a pretty unpleasant bunch

You know what they say... Football is a gentlemens' game played by hooligans whilst rugby is a hooligans' game played by gentlemen. The fanbase often appears the same.

James

 

[elainemary]

My google-fu has failed me.
Can anyone point me towards any studies of navigation specifically in AMM?

Since they are known for flying in cloudy and rainy conditions it seems to me that they must have something else going-on that A.M do not.

Hi I have often pondered this too, after observing my bees fly in rainy cool conditions when others do not. Concluded better adapted to cooler conditions - better thermoregulation of the thorax through shivering / warming up flight muscles and hairier than other sub-species so keep warmer.

There was an article in the American bee journal about Scottish bees along similar lines, following observations from Ann Chilcott, a Scottish bee master, who then approached Tom Seeley for an explanation.

https://bluetoad.com/publication/?i=460811&article_id=2961027&view=articleBrowser

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just because it's cloudy, doesn't mean the bees don't know where the sun is.
I remember in a talk by Prof. Robert Pickard on the bee brain, he said the first thing a bee does on setting off in the morning is look up and down so as to recalibrate its brain to the force of gravity. He recalled a middle of the night call from NASA when they took the first bees to space, apparently the bees were doing nothing just floating around in their chamber doing nothing. They couldn't locate the gravitational force so just shut down!

 

[Wilco]

I would hazard a guess that being out in those conditions is more to do with a selection pressure to be able to successfully forage in cooler conditions than anything else. The navigation skills are likely similar, it's more about being able to survive and bring something back. That's a(n un)educated guess though.

I've seen all varieties of bees foraging on cloudy days, surely what you're after is more to do with the ability to cope with lower temperatures and/or mizzle? If so that's likely to do with metabolism and anatomy.

Remember we only see certain wavelengths of light and the bees see a different spectrum. If UV is scattered and blocked less than visible light it would make sense that bees might still be able to locate the sun even when we cannot. So the question becomes more about the physics of different wavelengths of light passing through clouds than the ability of the bees in this case. Bees also use other sensory cues too, such as electromagnetic fields. The following papers may be of interest, first talking about electrostatic fields:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AQFnoECA4QBQ&usg=AOvVaw0Zb036oaA1XLEPLmzeB5Mw
Measuring hairs is discussed in these but probably not the specific info. we're after:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8874558/
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ece3.6112
EDIT:
This attached one's interesting.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I would hazard a guess that being out in those conditions is more to do with a selection pressure to be able to successfully forage in cooler conditions than anything else. The navigation skills are likely similar, it's more about being able to survive and bring something back. That's a(n un)educated guess though.

I've seen all varieties of bees foraging on cloudy days, surely what you're after is more to do with the ability to cope with lower temperatures and/or mizzle? If so that's likely to do with metabolism and anatomy.

Remember we only see certain wavelengths of light and the bees see a different spectrum. If UV is scattered and blocked less than visible light it would make sense that bees might still be able to locate the sun even when we cannot. So the question becomes more about the physics of different wavelengths of light passing through clouds than the ability of the bees in this case. Bees also use other sensory cues too, such as electromagnetic fields. The following papers may be of interest, first talking about electrostatic fields:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AQFnoECA4QBQ&usg=AOvVaw0Zb036oaA1XLEPLmzeB5Mw
Measuring hairs is discussed in these but probably not the specific info. we're after:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8874558/
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ece3.6112
EDIT:
This attached one's interesting.

Love this post will thanks

 

[BaconWizard]

I would hazard a guess that being out in those conditions is more to do with a selection pressure to be able to successfully forage in cooler conditions than anything else. The navigation skills are likely similar, it's more about being able to survive and bring something back. That's a(n un)educated guess though.

I've seen all varieties of bees foraging on cloudy days, surely what you're after is more to do with the ability to cope with lower temperatures and/or mizzle? If so that's likely to do with metabolism and anatomy.

Remember we only see certain wavelengths of light and the bees see a different spectrum. If UV is scattered and blocked less than visible light it would make sense that bees might still be able to locate the sun even when we cannot. So the question becomes more about the physics of different wavelengths of light passing through clouds than the ability of the bees in this case. Bees also use other sensory cues too, such as electromagnetic fields. The following papers may be of interest, first talking about electrostatic fields:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AQFnoECA4QBQ&usg=AOvVaw0Zb036oaA1XLEPLmzeB5Mw
Measuring hairs is discussed in these but probably not the specific info. we're after:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8874558/
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ece3.6112
EDIT:
This attached one's interesting.

Fascinating, thanks

 

[Sutty]

I read that the reason they don't need sight of the sun is that the ocelli on the top of the head respond to different polarised light enabling them to read the polarization pattern in the sky thus giving direction to the sun.

 

[JamezF]

I read that the reason they don't need sight of the sun is that the ocelli on the top of the head respond to different polarised light enabling them to read the polarization pattern in the sky thus giving direction to the sun.

That's consistent with what I've read.

James