Natural beekeeping varroa treatment

[Poly Hive]

They killed colonies at various stages Dishmop so sorry to say there is no way of avoiding this information.

Untreated colonies die. Colonies with a high load of varroa abscond and infect well treated and healthy colonies near by. This was also the UK experience.

In Germany each state set a realistic fortnight in which to treat so that the bulk of the colonies were all clean (ish) at the same time. Obviously some were not due to ill health deaths and so on, but in general it was an organised treatment.

As I posted already not treating is really not an option. Whether organic methods or other are utilised one has to do something or our charges die.

PH

 

[Storm™]

............http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/droneraise.html


Health and viability of drones... Varroa treatment using Formic Acid renders the drones dry and impotent.

Thank you HiveMaker for taking the time to look it up. Since reading your post that last night I had a deeper look for some other info for us.

Dishmop?

I was treated to a course at Marburg in Germany where they were doing what you might call reall research. PH

"The Effects of Miticides on the Reproductive Physiology of Honey Bee - Queens and Drones" by Lisa Marie Burley." -

This may also then be of interest - I have not read it all but Apilife VAR lowers sperm count significantly apparently.

Also found this other *cough*forum discussion*cough* where the subject comes up and is discussed.

Looks like I have got me sum readin to do. Yup.

http://tiny.cc/5wp7s which may also be of help.

 

[Dishmop]

I am interested to know how they caught a colony which had absconded to ascertain that they had absconded because they had varroa.
I dont see how anybody can what the reason was why they did a runner.

 

[Poly Hive]

Dishmop this is known behaviour. Accept it.

PH

 

[Dishmop]

Dishmop this is known behaviour. Accept it.
PH

Well perhaps I need to do a lot more reading then because I have not seen it mentioned in any of the books I have read, and neither have I noticed anybody on here state that their colony swarmed because they were infested with varroa. How would you know?

 

[Poly Hive]

How would you know?

I think you are misunderstanding the word swarming here. I am not discussing reproductive swarming, but using the word to describe absconding in Autumn.

How would you know? Abandoned brood in late autumn and no bees.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

The primary reasons for absconding are overheating, lack of food, and frequent disturbance. However, it can also be caused by bad odors, parasites in the hive, or disease,bee's suffering from acarine would often abscond.
They are trying to escape the problem in the only way they can....similar to a heard of deer or such like trying to escape parisitic flys,by running,stampeding.....go google absconding behaviour in bee's....you will then find more imformation.

 

[Dishmop]

Yeh Ok I used the word swarm instead of abscond by mistake but I think it was clear from what I had previously said that it was not too hard to make out what I meant.

Abandoned brood in late autumn and no bees.

am I not mistaken in saying that bees have always done that for some reason or other.....

although for the past few years the reasoning is that they do it because of varroa.

References everywhere to things like " I lost a colony because of varroa" meaning what? Lost as in abscond or died?
Does a varroa mite actually kill a bee? How long does a bee live and how long does a mite live?

 

[Poly Hive]

Try this: http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/adrian-wenner/varroa-mite-spread-in-the-united-states/

And no bees do not normally abscond in Autumn.

Dishmop? Can I enquire as to when you began keeping bees please so I can have an idea of where to come at this from?

PH

A good over view though the absconding is not mentioned, none the less: http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/learning/documents/Chapter6 2010.pdf

 

[Dishmop]

Dishmop? Can I enquire as to when you began keeping bees please so I can have an idea of where to come at this from?

I dont think thats really relevant because you are imparting information not specifally at me but to hundreds of others who read this forum.
I am not a varroa club member supporter but everything is blamed on this one problem. If something goes wrong its varroa.

Does varroa kill bees??????

Do bees abscond because they have varroa?

My cat absconded but I dont know why because I never found it.

The following is not directed at you PH.


A colony catches mites and its blamed on somebody else's bees.
"My bees caught varroa because the bloke down the road didnt treat his bees."

Did his bees come and plant some mites in your hive?

No, the bees possibly/probably picked up a mite from a flower, which is likely to happen if bees were treated or not.

 

[Poly Hive]

I cannot disagree with you about many blaming all ills on Varroa much as they did over the so called Isle of Weight diesase.

However a parasite which damages the unemerged brood, which penetrates the skin of the adults and lets in goodness what all ills and viruses is certainly doing no good at all.

Not treating is a certain way to lose the colonies.

However like all things there is no telling some who get the bit between their teeth and rapidly reinvent the wheel, then experience that ancient but all powerful teacher appears and things change. Not always for the best.

PH

 

[Chris Luck]

Every time I pop in here it's the same old people telling the same old tales - wives tales that is. So, once again, my bees do not die, do not abscond or exhibit any other weird forms of behaviour and they do not "get treated" apart from some icing sugar twice in early autumn. Whether this has much effect I don't know and don't much care as long as my bees are OK, which they seemed to be today when all the colonies were active enjoying a nice warm day.

Sweeping general statements that are clearly not true, perhaps it's just lazy use of language - but an untreated colony is not condemned to death, I know.

Chris

 

[Poly Hive]

There is generalising from the particular and particularising from the general.

In general in an infected area an untreated colony will die in about four years time. That was the German experience and that is what they taught us.

If bees are surviving untreated either they are resistant or there is no or very little varroa around.

However that one instance does not negate a general truth.

Sorry.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Chris,

but an untreated colony is not condemned to death, I know.

How about changing that to the truth ie 'Some untreated coloniies do not die from varroa. I know', or similar? Your statement cannot be true.

We do know that not all untreated colonies will die from varroa infestation But the evidence, since the pest has spread ever further, is that in most cases, the colony will be destroyed because the parasite and host are not matched - yet awhile anyway.

You may be just keeping your bees the right side of the line by treating, yes treating, with icing sugar. Please don't say that is not treating because we know it most certainly is. The efficacy may be low and you don't check, you say, so you cannot be sure.

The thousands of beekeepers who packed up in the early 90s for the very reason of colony mortality were not mistaken. Well, not many of them. Varroa mites were to blame.

Your bees may well be better placed after twenty years of suffering terminally at the claws of varroa. Most are not yet in that lucky position.

I treat no more than sufficient to control the varroa within reasonable threshold values.

That does not normally include oxalic acid treatment in the middle of winter. I would if I was worried about the varroa count.

I believe my bees may be getting to grips with the mite, but I am not yet sufficiently confident to for go some treatment of some kind - which might include any of the IPM strategies as per the DEFRA publication.

People with one or two colonies should not take the risk. The losses would either be100% or 50% which would be an unacceptable for most people, for simply not taking precautions.

Regards, RAB

 

[Chris Luck]

However that one instance does not negate a general truth.

So who is saying it's one instance? The truth is that anyone that goes against the "fiddling, manipulating, treating game" on this forum has to "listen" to a load of tripe about being vectors of disease and an enemy of bees and bee keeping which is total crap - even if it makes the people that write those posts feel smug and superior - your not, you are just rude and self opinionated.

Chris

 

[Poly Hive]

Lost me here. Keep your bees any way you like.

If you decide not to treat and you get away with it then bully for you.

Most of us though cannot. Which in turn makes the ugly truth true. You dinna treat and you lose your bees.

I will add this though. The Germans took us to see an apiary, they said help yourselves and see what you think. Now this party was very very experienced, there were bee farmers with hundreds of colonies, me with my little enterprise, and some very highly educated lecturing beekeepers too.

We couldn't find what was wrong with the hives, some honey some stores, some brood but a general "feeling of malaise"

Then they told us they kept them from collapse by introducing frames of varroa free brood. They kept they alive to show how pernicious the whole thing is/was, and how it can fool people.

If you find my postings rude and opinionated then please put me on your ignore list. Much easier and better for your blood pressure too.

PH

 

[Finman]

Sweeping general statements that are clearly not true, perhaps it's just lazy use of language - but an untreated colony is not condemned to death, I know.Chris

I know too that it is 90% sure that colony will die for varroa. It does not need much experience.

I admit, not all...But you are lucky if not all.

 

[Chris Luck]

If you find my postings rude and opinionated then please put me on your ignore list. Much easier and better for your blood pressure too.

Actually I'm disgustingly fit including my blood pressure and I'm more concerned about the one sided attitudes that tend to prevail here. In the short while that I've viewed this forum I've seen the barrage of snide comments that can befall a new poster that prefers a more natural, less intrusive method of bee keeping. Oooop's, there I go again, the fiddlers don't call that bee keeping do they? Although WTF it is if it isn't keeping bees I don't know - especially if said bees are healthy and doing just hunky dory. Of course some people may have a vested interest in making out the whole thing is "complicated" and that "bees are under threat" blah, blah...which I would postulate simply isn't true.

I suggest that you experienced keepers have a look at the causes of the historical decline in France - other than that pesky little mite. Hmmmmmm.

Chris

 

[Finman]

I suggest that you experienced keepers have a look at the causes of the historical decline in France - other than that pesky little mite. Hmmmmmm.

Chris

I am in Finland. I know one professional beekeepers who does not treat his hives against varroa.

I do not know about France.
Why should I?

Many hobby beekeeper say that varroa problem is solved but university researchers say that problems are becoming worse.

I have had varroa since 1982. I do not give to that bug chance to kill my hives. Oxalic acid is a splended stuff and allmost cost free.

 

[Moggs]

Hi Chris.

If I felt quite as strongly about such things as you clearly do, I would leave.

However, I am perhaps better placed as a newish beekeeper to accept what I believe to be wise counsel (sifting and sorting such information to my own needs and benefit). I find such provocative input quite unhelpful and counterproductive.

May your bees remain unhindered from the ravages of varroa for many a year.